"My child is transgender" or, count the number of stereotypes...

[WeeBisom]

www.parents.com/parenting/my-transgender-child-this-is-how-i-know/

This article has to be one of the most craziest ones I've read yet. Things that are apparently 'masculine' and a sign that your girl is really a boy: finding farts funny, Pokemon, wanting to play baseball, watching wrestling, wanting short hair, zombies, Minecraft, mud, superheroes, selecting 'boy' pieces in a board game, having boy friends, wanting to wear a Transformers t shirt, Mario...

Also, can anyone with children tell me how realistic the initial conversation with the four year old child is? Do four year olds even ask what death is? And would a four year old even be able to grasp (let alone pronounce) the concept of reincarnation?

I think what makes me angry about these articles about trans kids, and their endless sea of stereotypes, is that could have been me. This child sounds a lot like me - even down to the funny interaction in the clothing store with her insisting on trying on boy's clothes. Except my mother didn't make a big deal of it and just let me wear what I liked. It's chilling that if I was a child today I could have been put down a lifelong path of medicalisation just because I liked dinosaurs and Power Rangers.

Surely the best outcome rather than to convince young children to transition is to work to eliminate gender stereotypes.

It is. But this is being pushed by people who have a wider agenda and whose intention is not really to enable children to wear what they want and play with what they want.

@OldChinaJug

Exactly. 2 year olds generally haven't even clicked that there is a difference between boys and girls.

My granddaughter, aged 2.4, has indeed clicked that there's a difference, and she does think it's down to clothes and pink and hair. She is fascinated by girls, always points them out. She loves pink, floaty dresses with flowers, and dolls. Nobody taught her these things; neither I nor DD were like that so it's just her trying to figure out the world.

But she is not at all "girly" in temperament -- whatever that means. She is assertive, and very adventurous. She is not afraid of anything. The other day we went to a playpark that had two sections, one for toddlers and one for bigger kids.

She immediately headed for the big kids area and wanted to go down the long, steep slides and even a chute, quite high up, which, when you looked in, was all dark and spooky. Mum and I were trying to convince her that she's too small -- but no, she had to go, again and again, up the stairs and down the chute. There was a climbing section with a climbing frame made of ropes, quite high, and a lot of 7-10 year old boys were swarming over it. She wanted to go, but her mum said no, that's for big boys (emphasis on big, not boys) but she still wanted to go and so we let her, though she could not climb very high. (She was the only girl there so I suppose it means she is really a boy?) She also insisted on going on the zip-line (being held all the time, of course).

I don't think her "pinky-flowery" preferences, or her method of identifying girls according to clothes, is particularly alarming. Kids use these identifiers as their simple ways of separating things out, and when she is older she will learn the true difference between boys and girls. She will sort it out, with our help.

But at school she may be exposed to confusing messages that make her question whether she 'really' is a girl if she's bold and adventurous!

She is fascinated by girls, always points them out. She loves pink, floaty dresses with flowers, and dolls.

Why wouldn't any child be fascinated by floaty dresses and flowers and dolls? There is nothing wrong with liking anything. The problem is that these identifiers - gendered books, toys, tv shows - are everywhere, but didn't exist until the last few decades.

It's as though as soon as women were liberated by legislation and contraception, something else had to flow in to fill the gap.

My granddaughter, aged 2.4, has indeed clicked that there's a difference, and she does think it's down to clothes and pink and hair.

I meant they generally haven't noticed that boys have a penis and girls have a vagina which was what the person in question claimed to have been discussing at 2.

At most, they notice that boys have a penis and girls don't - but only if they have seen other naked 2 year olds. How would they know about a girls internal anatomy and the correct terminology for such unless they were told? At that age the diference is only superficial stereotypes and why shouldn't a boy like pink sparkly stuff?

My son was fascinated by pink and sparkly when he was 2. He liked to go into Boots to play with the make up and often wore nail polish and had his hair in bunches for nursery.

He was at least 3 before he started rejecting things because they were 'for girls' and, even then, he didnt know that boys have a penis and girls have a vagina!

But she is not at all "girly" in temperament -- whatever that means. She is assertive, and very adventurous. She is not afraid of anything. The other day we went to a playpark that had two sections, one for toddlers and one for bigger kids.

She immediately headed for the big kids area and wanted to go down the long, steep slides and even a chute, quite high up, which, when you looked in, was all dark and spooky. Mum and I were trying to convince her that she's too small -- but no, she had to go, again and again, up the stairs and down the chute. There was a climbing section with a climbing frame made of ropes, quite high, and a lot of 7-10 year old boys were swarming over it. She wanted to go, but her mum said no, that's for big boys (emphasis on big, not boys) but she still wanted to go and so we let her, though she could not climb very high. (She was the only girl there so I suppose it means she is really a boy?) She also insisted on going on the zip-line (being held all the time, of course).

And how will you feel if someone decides at some point that this must mean your granddaughter is actually a boy?

Why could the bigger climbing frame not be for big girls too?

And how will you feel if someone decides at some point that this must mean your granddaughter is actually a boy?

I - and her parents -- would be up in arms, I assure you! We all live in Ireland so it is a concern.

Why could the bigger climbing frame not be for big girls too?

The fact was that at that time there were only boys climbing on it, no girls. Mum was just showing her what was actually going on. Of course girls can be all over a climbing frame -- but that day, they weren't. I suppose mum should have said "big children" and not "big boys" but she was trying to convince her not to go at all.

She has a dad who takes her swimming in ice-cold lakes several times a week (if the weather allows it) and she loves it so I'm not worried that she thinks adventures are only for boys! Me, I can't stand cold water and I am very admiring of her hardiness.

^ "that she might think adventures...

She has a dad who takes her swimming in ice-cold lakes several times a week

Bloody Hell! As someone who has experience of nothing more than paddling up Donegal way, I'm impressed!

Things like this really disturb me. I have a 6yo daughter.

She wears alot of 'boys' clothes, their socks,shorts and t shirts. Reason being she hates pinks and pastel colours. Loves red, blue, black etc. Likes to be comfortable so no tiny shorts riding up her bum!

She loves dinosaurs, crocodiles, mario games, climbing. Hates dolls, will be the male character in games........i assume if she had different parents she would be thinking she was born in the wrong body.

I honestly think she would have jumped at the chance of being a boy if i told her she could be one. I dont know what these parents are thinking, I've always told my daughter she is a girl and can like what she wants and wear what she wants. She is a really cool kid, with her own mind and I'm very proud of the confidence she has to be herself and not conform as she has had comments and sniggers from boys (older ones) in school.

She wears alot of 'boys' clothes, their socks,shorts and t shirts. Reason being she hates pinks and pastel colours. Loves red, blue, black etc. Likes to be comfortable so no tiny shorts riding up her bum!

I used to hate pink and floaty dresses when I was a child -- and those sticky-out frothy petticoats were all the rage! I refused to wear them, refused to play with dolls. I liked playing in the backyard with ants and catching small fish in the gutters and raising tadpoles. When I was 9 I wanted to be a boy and mum even added a name to my birth certificate so I could have a boy's name, and cut my hair short.

My whole family, teachers, etc played along -- it wasn't a big deal, and this was the 50's! Nobody for a second thought that I actually WAS a boy. I just thought that boys had more interesting lives than what was designated for girls.

All her friends are boys, so we fought for her to sleep in a boys' tent for y2 camp. @ShSpecialFriends I'm Scotland so not sure about year groups! yr 2 age 5/6 or 12/13? Who was the fight with school or other parents/pupils?

In Scotland not I'm Scotland! 🙂

I don't understand how every thinking person in the western world, cannot see how harmful and restrictive the gender stereotypes are. If we scrapped them, then these kids would no longer need fixing, they would be absolutely fine to express themselves however they wanted. They could wear any clothes, play with any toys, have friends of either sex, have their hair long or short.

I don't understand how every thinking person in the western world, cannot see how harmful and restrictive the gender stereotypes are. If we scrapped them, then these kids would no longer need fixing, they would be absolutely fine to express themselves however they wanted.

But then the middle aged men who discover that they were always destined to be women would have no children to point to in order to 'prove' that they had always felt like that. 'Transgender children' are simply human shields (and collateral damage) for the validation of middle aged men who declare themselves women.

In the words of transactivist Autumn Sandeen:
“I’ve always said there are two groups that are going to make change in transgender legislation and the “gender identity and expression” related language in legislation. It’s going to be trans youth because … they demystify it and take the sex right out of the trans experience.”

If there were no transgender children, it would be necessary to invent them.

But I don't understand why otherwise rational people are being taken in by this bizarre ideology.

But she is not at all "girly" in temperament -- whatever that means. She is assertive, and very adventurous.

She must be northern

She must be northern

🤣🤣🤣

“I’ve always said there are two groups that are going to make change in transgender legislation and the “gender identity and expression” related language in legislation. It’s going to be trans youth because … they demystify it and take the sex right out of the trans experience.”

But, of there were no sex and it didnt matter, there would be no trans. If we didn't notice sex, there would be no trans.

Wow that's a lot.

Such drama, feeling like a "lie" for buying a female child a Transformer T-Shirt?

I loved Pokemon and dinosaurs and playing in the dirt and climbing trees as a little girl. I had a Pokemon Tshirt from the boys section because there wasn't one in the girls. My mum didn't tell me it wasn't for me. She just got it because it had Pikachu on it and I wanted it.

We've regressed so much in terms of gender stereotyping and a lot of children are going to get truly hurt because of it and that makes me very sad. Maybe not this particular child, but there are going to be a lot of them.

But, of there were no sex and it didnt matter, there would be no trans. If we didn't notice sex, there would be no trans.

When they say 'take the sex out of the trans experience' they're referring to the fact that some people view transgenderism (or transsexualism) as a paraphilia. Obviously transgenderism in children is not a paraphilia, so by extrapolation, if children can be 'transgender', then transgenderism in adults is not a paraphilia either, so long as we assume that the drivers are the same for both adults and children. So in this way, children 'desexualise' transgenderism.

I'm trying to write this in such a way so as not to be deleted, so apologies if this is unclear.

@TitianaTitsling

All her friends are boys, so we fought for her to sleep in a boys' tent for y2 camp. *@ShSpecialFriends* I'm Scotland so not sure about year groups! yr 2 age 5/6 or 12/13? Who was the fight with school or other parents/pupils?

She was 6, as were her friends. Their parents were supportive in wanting my anxious, selectively mute child to have friends to share with, rather than having a tent of children she found baffling and scary, just because their genitalia matched. We were fighting against a "system" of ingrained thinking, where no-one had ever considered that a girl might be friends with boys, and assumed that everyone should stick to their own kind. I think that's part of the problem.

How the fuck are Pokemon a boys' only thing? I loved Pokemon when I was a kid and still do (I also like Transformers, superheroes, wrestling and fart jokes.)

Reading that article is just, argh! The mother was a tomboy when she was a kid, now her daughter is and she can't handle it. And can anyone explain to me how the body of a four year old girl is different to that of a four year old boy (apart from the obvious primary sex characteristics?)

Interestingly the article below is about a dad teaching his son to ignore gender norms.

www.parents.com/parenting/dad-dresses-up-as-elsa-to-teach-his-son-to-ignore-gender-norms/

I dunno, Sapphire, what's all that about the child having a "pink shadow" while his dad's is blue?!

Just let him dress up how he likes, when he likes. 🤷🏼‍♀️

If a little girl wanted to wear a Spiderman costume to watch the latest Spiderman film, nobody would blink, would they?

How odd that some breaches of gender conformity are perceived as more or less serious depending which sex is doing the breaching...

I'm much more concerned when I see young relatives with Disneyfied parents paying out fortunes for princess makeovers - heavy makeup for 6year olds?! - and attending events where little boys, too, are dressed up like Ruritanian princelings and photoshoots show them kneeling to their princesses - all well under 10!

That's gender conformity taken to creepy levels and most unhealthy.

The problem is that these identifiers - gendered books, toys, tv shows - are everywhere, but didn't exist until the last few decades

They absolutely did - a cursory glance at what our grandparents and parents were wearing in photos as children/adults shows that and bundled in with incredibly strict social conventions. Mass capitalist consumer culture though in the last few decades has take these things to new heights in terms of cultural positioning. But if you look at what teen girls are wearing (not the ones pouting on instagram), there is a huge fashion movement for oversized, 1990s inspired androgynous clothing.

My daughter was into cars, Pokemon, football, climbing trees etc. She is 15 now an army cadet and still wants to shave her hair off. She also wants to have children in the future and likes being a girl she just doesn't like stereotypes.

My youngest son who is now 10 was very into what would be classed as girly stuff when he was young and once asked me at about 4 how he could take his willy off to be a girl like his sister and have bunches. I just told him that he couldn't be a girl and if he wanted bunches he could grow his hair. It's terrifying that some people would start medicating on that comment alone.