Just for a second I really hated my husband.

[Mammatino]

I bloody did. We were having a drink yesterday afternoon in the garden talking about the things we missed about living in London. One of the things he said he missed was just sitting in a pavement bar on his own with a pint and a paper listening to the snippets of life And the diversity happening around him...and I hated him. (Well probably not hate just searing jealousy)I’ve never ever felt safe enough to do that, certainly as a young woman, some man would have sat with me to save me from embarrassment Then got angry with me because I didn’t want his company. Or wanted to feel me up for his poxy half of lager. Before my thirtieth birthday I had a bucket list and on it was to dine alone. I tried it once, it was excruciating. I don’t know what I’m trying to say here really but it makes me so sad for young girls and women that they can’t just watch life going by on their own. I’d love to have a lovely cafe bar just for women and girls to come and do just that. What Small thing do you wish you could have done if you were a man? Do you think it will ever change? Or has it changed and I've just missed the boat.

People who are nasty are the problem not you,

This is a tricky one as everyone's lived experience is different to another's. I found it liberating to find the courage to eat and drink alone as I saw fit, living in East London in my mid 20s (only a few years ago) but I felt at the time able to shrug off or say fuck off to any unwanted attention and as I've matured I understand that isn't possible for everyone to do AND it shouldn't be something women "should" do, their experience of feeling threatened is perfectly valid.

As a victim of sexual violence of rape I think my views on what I can cope with are warped as my experiences are 'worse' then cat calling, a man pulling a seat up uninvited etc - and I feel terribly guilty for viewing these as sort of 'lesser than' offences. That blame lies with me.

As I say, post attack, I found it liberating to sit where the fuck I wanted and feel able to say 'stop' to a man who imposed in that situation, because I couldn't say 'stop' to my violent attack and so it felt somehow less scary.

For others whose experience of male violence IS that unwanted cat call, seat taking, conversation etc I totally understand how absolutely skin crawlingly horrible it still is

I've done that a lot when I used to travel alone in Asia. I'd often get men in hostels who made a big deal out of being so surprised I was travelling alone though. Luckily for me nothing bad ever happened.

I’m sorry that you feel uncomfortable dining or drinking alone but I don’t think that it’s a universal experience in London.

One of my greatest joys is a cake & coffee or a solo glass of wine in a bar or cafe. Very occasionally I take my laptop to the pub down the road and finish my emails for the day with a pint. I’ve never been hassled. I also backpacked solo for months on end when I was younger.

Funnily I feel more at risk running early in the morning in quiet streets or the park. That’s something I’ve more or less given up in my mid 30s as I just can’t shake the niggle of feeling unsafe.

I've never had a problem doing this in London. I think if it's perfectly obvious that you're relaxed and enjoying your own company most people will leave you alone, irrespective of your sex or age.

I don’t recognise any of the situations you’re describing. I’ve never had anyone bother or approach me while alone. I wouldn’t feel remotely unsafe drinking or eating alone. Maybe you need to pick nicer establishments?

I bloody love going out to a pub or having dinner on my own, with a good book! I'm sorry that your experiences have, I think, warped your sense of what is safe and unsafe. I hope you enjoy yourself thoroughly when you go out!

I've gone by myself to bars/cafés/restaurants all my adult life, with no more harassment than any other activity. Solo train journeys, on the other hand, were full of creepy guys hitting on me, which made my work commute annoying until I discovered that knitting on trains dramatically reduced the frequency of harrassment.

I can't say I have ever felt this way particularly, I often would go to the pub or dinner or a film by myself when I was younger. Only once did I ever have trouble with a strange man bothering me, I managed to put him off but it was a bit of a piss-off. But out of more than forty years that was only one incident. Mostly people left me alone or in some cases chatted in a friendly way.

I think you've created a vision here which barely resembles real life.

It's almost like you're annoyed with yourself for not being a bit more self sufficient that you've created this 'bad world for women' justification?

I’ve been to pubs and restaurants all over London and never experienced this. Are you stunning OP

I am so glad to hear that my experience isn’t the norm. I think this has opened my eyes and reminded me to remember that our experiences are different and just because my experiences have been unpleasant it doesn’t mean the same for all. Basically remove head from own arse. Thank you.

I’ve been eating and drinking on my own since the 1970s in pubs, restaurants and bars in this country and abroad. Yes I’ve been chatted up and propositioned many times but have mostly pleasantly extracted myself from such situations. It’s never been a problem...once or twice I’ve gone along with it and had nice encounters...I suppose I’ve been lucky, but I think my experience is fairly typical.

I don’t know what I’m trying to say here really but it makes me so sad for young girls and women that they can’t just watch life going by on their own.

Yes they can, I love dining alone, and even going to the pub alone!
Just sounds like you've had some bad encounters

Maybe it depends on your background a bit.

This is very much your problem, OP. Nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with your own anxiety.

Plenty of us have dined alone with no issues whatsoever.

Your head isn’t up your arse! Don’t turn it on yourself. It’s not your fault!

I’m surprised at the lack of empathy on this thread.

I don’t walk in the countryside alone, and it kills me that I can’t. There was a post on the local FB group about sth happening to a lone woman on the railway Walk here, and it was all I could do to stop myself going full on talking about „Gift of Fear“ / Krav Maga style advice ... I’m jealous of those who are that carefree.

It’s anxiety brought about by specific experiences. I feel a bit ashamed now that I haven’t been brave enough to go out and do this.

Could you try in a small way first - pick situation that seem less threatening to you (e.g. coffee outside) then work up to posh restaurant on your own. Personally I go out a lot on my own especially as I travel a lot for business (pre-Covid19 obviously). It's never worried me, sometimes I get an approach by a guy but I've not had a problem.

I don’t walk in the countryside alone, and it kills me that I can’t

Just do it. The chances of anything bad happening are incredibly small. I've been walking alone, including walking late at night, for my entire life. I've had one bad incident in over forty years - and even then, I wasn't actually touched or hurt. I honestly think many women allow fear to restrict their lives.

Ha, I must be far uglier than you!

I'm 45 and have been going to gigs, festivals, restaurants and pubs on my own since I was 20.

I've never been approached by a single man in all that time. I've had plenty of women attempt to draw me into their social group to protect me from the men but its never happened.

That's not to say I've never been on the end of vile, sexist behaviour, just never when I've been out alone.

You shouldn’t feel ashamed op, this has been your own valid response to the ever present threat of Male violence. Hopefully this thread expands your perspective, but I don’t begrudge you how you felt.

@Dervel

You shouldn’t feel ashamed op, this has been your own valid response to the ever present threat of Male violence. Hopefully this thread expands your perspective, but I don’t begrudge you how you felt.

This is beautifully put and so true.

@fascinated

Your head isn’t up your arse! Don’t turn it on yourself. It’s not your fault!

I’m surprised at the lack of empathy on this thread.

I don’t walk in the countryside alone, and it kills me that I can’t. There was a post on the local FB group about sth happening to a lone woman on the railway Walk here, and it was all I could do to stop myself going full on talking about „Gift of Fear“ / Krav Maga style advice ... I’m jealous of those who are that carefree.

There was a twitter thread a couple of years ago asking what women would do if we could send all the males to another planet for 24 hours. The most common answer, by far, was "go for a walk in the woods at night."

I guess it's not just the fear of what could happen but the fear of victim blaming if anything did happen. And the fact that a lot of women are told since girlhood not to go out alone after dark, to never walk home alone etc etc. It's completely understandable that many women feel unsafe about doing this.

Get a dog? Solves all the awkwardness and anxiety of doing alone things for me