Mermaids: Binders in a heatwave

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

Mermaids have some tips on how to manage in a heatwave with a binder. Because - guess what! - it's not a great idea to constrict your breathing! And I presume wearing a binder must increase the risk of heatstroke.

Mermaids suggests these tips will help avoid heatstroke/fainting while wearing a binder:

Don't wear black
Stay out of the sunlight
Avoid exercise

Only if you feel symptoms of heatstroke do they recommend you remove the binder:

'watch out for signs of heatstroke or heat exhaustion. If you think you have these symptoms, tell a friend so they can watch out for you. If you can, get to a place where you can remove your binder '

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/summer-binder-safety-tips1293489163895963650

Why does Mermaids want to facilitate children risking their health? If a child or teenager feels that they have to conceal or alter their body to fit some idea of 'gender identity', it suggests they are in need of help to manage their feelings, emotions or mental health. They need support to ask why they might wish to risk their health to fit some imagined body ideal.

Not tips on how to mitigate the risks of wearing a binder.

Melroses Wed 12-Aug-20 13:02:20
^I remember from the film of the doctor who was 'cancelled' (Zucker?) that he encouraged girls to join local baseball teams etc and that physical activity and team sports helped them come to terms with their body. It gave them real life community and pride in what they can do.^

This is another reason I'm so bothered by the threat to women's sports. Sports build up our self-confidence and comfort in our own bodies. They took me out of my obsessive ruminations, gave me goals, teammates, a scholarship. I credit sports with rescuing me as a teen from traumatic mental health issues (a school psychologist put me into soccer and track and field).

(I think sports are good for trans people too...just not competing against girls.)

i think they have been genuinely worried about how to continue the momentum when they can't get to the children.

I'm not sure what this poster is insinuating, really - that there's a shadowy cabal of charities and organisations trying to 'get to' children...to what end?

There are lots of problems with binders - difficult or uncomfortable to wear, to get a good fit, etc. But trans teens ARE using them. And will find a way to do so, whether or not their parents or people on Mumsnet like it. They did before Mermaids came along and they would if it disappeared.

Surely it is better, then, for those teens to be able to access information about how to do that safely in the hot weather, than overheating and causing illnesses?

I don't think it's an issue of whether or not you agree with binders, to be honest - I don't agree with intravenous drug use, but I absolutely see the need for safe injecting information and supplies, because better that than using unsafe needles or doing it incorrectly.

Two other analogies, @yelyah22, which I think may already have been used on this thread. I'd say these are a better parallel to the situation of a teenage girl wearing a binder because of body and gender dysmorphia than intravenous drug abusers needing clean needles.

'I don't agree with eating disorders, but I absolutely see the need for safe calorie restricting and overexercising information, because better that than just not eating or exercising in a heatwave to the point of heat exhaustion.'

'I don't agree with self-harm, but I absolutely see the need for safe cutting information and a supply of new sharp razors and antibac wipes, because better that than cutting with something blunt or dirty and getting infected.'

No. A young girl with such bad dysmorphia that she wants to damage her body and her health in any way needs mental health support. She doesn't need advice on how to do it better.

I'm not sure what this poster is insinuating, really - that there's a shadowy cabal of charities and organisations trying to 'get to' children...to what end?

I'll believe that when tget start going to nursing homes and training the elderly.

Ask yourself who it benefits to have confused children with no idea of appropriate boundaries who are above the age of consent but trapped in a child's body through medication.

I have a 22 year old on the waiting list for testosterone which she believes will be the answer to her (many) problems. And desperate for the day she can have a double mastectomy so wears her binder any time someone outside the family might see her. Autistic, anxious and directionless. There is NO mental health support available apart from anxiety medication from her GP. Nothing from the gender service apart from a diagnosis of GD after 1 45 min appointment, and a follow up one to go through paperwork.

Can I also point out that these girls are conditioned into believing that wearing a binder is "essential" to prove how dysphoric you are, and that you risk not being really trans without it. Mermaids are part of that conditioning

I think it's about fear of detransitioners. There's been a lot of anecdotal evidence during lockdown of teen girls ditching the binder and the pronouns and stepping away from the whole thing. This doesn't fit the mermaids narrative and it backs up the social contagion theory.

for you Small and your 22 year old. Hope things improve for you both.

for you and your child, Small. That's awful.

I do think the heatwave thing is horrendous. Imagine being a teenage girl, wondering about taking the binder off, going outside in the sun, and then here's mermaids telling you to keep it on and stay indoors in the dark. Horrifying.

• 'I don't agree with self-harm, but I absolutely see the need for safe cutting information and a supply of new sharp razors and antibac wipes, because better that than cutting with something blunt or dirty and getting infected.'

No. A young girl with such bad dysmorphia that she wants to damage her body and her health in any way needs mental health support. She doesn't need advice on how to do it better*

The comparative argument for binders, however, would be that without binders, many of these girls would be (and are) using things like duct tape which are more harmful.

A better “compromise” in the absence of the much needed mental health support would be to encourage the use of sports bras which some girls find alleviate their distress enough to cope.

Quote fail there.

Yes Small. A friend of mine who transitioned about 6 years ago was told by their GIDS that his choice to continue to wear women's underwear was concerning. It was to do with the cut and the waist rise, and other health problems he had that ruled out higher waisted pants, but the consultant was not having it and queried his dedication to transition because of it.

I'm not sure what this poster is insinuating, really - that there's a shadowy cabal of charities and organisations trying to 'get to' children...to what end?

Validation for late transitioning males, and support for their claim that they are not fetishists. If a middle aged male transitioner wants to prove that he has "always known he was a woman", and this extends back to his childhood, he needs there to be children who are experiencing what he claims to have experienced as a child.

There was a YouTube video of a transactivist spelling this out, but it's now been removed (I assume they realised that spelling out exactly what they were up to wasn't very clever). Miranda Yardley transcribed the most relevant part here:

mirandayardley.com/en/this-is-an-all-out-political-war-the-gender-recognition-act-and-beyond/

To understand why the focus has moved onto children, look to the YouTube discussion between TransYouth Family Allies executive director Kim Pearson and transgender activist Autumn Sandeen, who states:

“I’ve always said there are two groups that are going to make change in transgender legislation and the “gender identity and expression” related language in legislation. It’s going to be trans youth because … they demystify it and take the sex right out of the trans experience.”

Pearson responds with:

“Right. And it’s hard to say no to kids, and the needs of kids and “keeping kids safe”. And you know, “being respected in schools” and things like that. It’s really hard for people to say no to that.”

More from Miranda Yardley on the recruitment of children here:

mirandayardley.com/en/the-colonisation-of-the-boyhood-of-pre-gay-children-by-heterosexual-transgender-activists-interview-with-blanchardphd/

I suspect that these men were expecting to recruit mainly boys. The much greater numbers of teenage girls with ROGD was probably an unexpected bonus for them.

I think most of us are old enough to have been at school with, have relatives, or be ‘that kid’ who would definitely been tagged as the ‘trans kid’. I’d also say that the vast majority of these kids grew up to be gay, bi, straight - but became comfortable with their own sex and came to terms with the fact that gender is nonsense and boys can like ballet and girls can drive tractors.

Just a note that I have had a strike for drawing parallels on this thread. I won't say what they were, so I don't get another strike. But please be careful when considering the mechanisms involved in group dynamics, that you don't say out loud what they might remind you of.

For the reporters: you realise that reporting any criticism in an effort to keep it hidden only emphasises the parallels? If there was nothing to the analogy then why would it need to be erased and silenced?

It is never healthy to find yourself unable to ask questions. It is not a healthy group dynamic to need to suppress debate, questions and criticism.

To be clear, I'm not addressing the MN mods here, I appreciate they have a hard job. And I do my best to keep comments fair and respectful.

What’s the expression about finding out who has power by finding out who you can’t question? Or did I make that up. Sounds about right.

Surely it is better, then, for those teens to be able to access information about how to do that safely in the hot weather, than overheating and causing illnesses?

Surely it is better that an organisation that is supposed to be focused on ensuring children get the best advice and help would actually be giving the information about how very dangerous using these binders are.

For those that mention things like providing sterile drug paraphernalia to addicts, there is also usually counselors and support staff there to advise. To provide complete and medically verified information about addiction and how to use services to stop taking drugs to those using that service. These are not usually full on affirming services in my understanding.

This does seem to be lacking in the information In these tweets and the type of ‘support’.

Now remember kids - when hitting yourself in the head with a hammer or jabbing yourself in the eye with a fork, it’s very important to do it this way...

Can I also point out that these girls are conditioned into believing that wearing a binder is "essential" to prove how dysphoric you are, and that you risk not being really trans without it. Mermaids are part of that conditioning

This really strikes a chord with me. How can you promote than anyone can be anything they feel they are, sex and gender don't necessarily align, yet on the other hand condition people to believe so strongly that males or non-binary people can't have breasts that they need to go against all medical/MH guidelines to disguise them? Can males have breasts or not? Are breasts necessary to be female or not? I don't get Mermaids' stance at all.

@bishopgiggles

Can I also point out that these girls are conditioned into believing that wearing a binder is "essential" to prove how dysphoric you are, and that you risk not being really trans without it. Mermaids are part of that conditioning This really strikes a chord with me. How can you promote than anyone can be anything they feel they are, sex and gender don't necessarily align, yet on the other hand condition people to believe so strongly that males or non-binary people can't have breasts that they need to go against all medical/MH guidelines to disguise them? Can males have breasts or not? Are breasts necessary to be female or not? I don't get Mermaids' stance at all.

Of course there's also the double standards. We hear that 'trans' children should have their puberty blocked, teenage girls who want to be boys have to bind their breasts, and they should all be medicated with cross sex hormones and have surgery as soon as they are adults.

Adult males can 'transition' by simply changing their name (or not), putting on a dress (or not), and don't have to change their bodies at all.

Of course there's also the double standards. We hear that 'trans' children should have their puberty blocked, teenage girls who want to be boys have to bind their breasts, and they should all be medicated with cross sex hormones and have surgery as soon as they are adults

They are also apparently fully aware of their gender at 2 and be given blockers at 11/12/13 because they know who they are

But when simarly aged children express concern and start petitions or campaigns to get their toilets back in schools they are not old enough to understand what they are doing and must be being lead by parents.

Why can’t a 2 year old like dollies or tractors for gods sake?

And as for the nonsense about babies undoing the poppers on babygrows ‘to make a skirt’ or pulling out hair grips - come on, those parents need their bumps felt if they actually believe that this indicates the the baby is ‘in the wrong body’ (sounds like people who believe in witchcraft or zombies).