Mermaids: Binders in a heatwave

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

Mermaids have some tips on how to manage in a heatwave with a binder. Because - guess what! - it's not a great idea to constrict your breathing! And I presume wearing a binder must increase the risk of heatstroke.

Mermaids suggests these tips will help avoid heatstroke/fainting while wearing a binder:

Don't wear black
Stay out of the sunlight
Avoid exercise

Only if you feel symptoms of heatstroke do they recommend you remove the binder:

'watch out for signs of heatstroke or heat exhaustion. If you think you have these symptoms, tell a friend so they can watch out for you. If you can, get to a place where you can remove your binder '

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/summer-binder-safety-tips1293489163895963650

Why does Mermaids want to facilitate children risking their health? If a child or teenager feels that they have to conceal or alter their body to fit some idea of 'gender identity', it suggests they are in need of help to manage their feelings, emotions or mental health. They need support to ask why they might wish to risk their health to fit some imagined body ideal.

Not tips on how to mitigate the risks of wearing a binder.

[quote TheLovleyChebbyMcGee]@SerenityNowwwww yes that's right, take a poll on the most biased board on mumsnet.

That's why I don't usually come into this board, because there is no debate, no thinking that any opinion other than your own is wrong. Not even reading your replies, pointless even trying engage.[/quote]
Ok, but it's against talk guidelines. You can't say it. Just like there's much we can't say.

I haven't reported the post, but others may have. It can be deleted and you can earn yourself a strike (three and you're suspended!) for the use of the term.

So find a way to debate your point without it, or don't post. But don't break talk guidelines and then flounce off as the injured party.

If an adult male wishes to bind their breasts for whatever reason, that is their business. I am sure that you will agree that it will not be because they wish to be seen as a female.

If an adolescent or young woman wishes to wear a binder with all the health risks associated with it, that is a major health issue and it should not be treated in any way lightly. If a person thinks it is ok because it makes them feel better, do you honestly feel this way about other damaging self-treatments such as cutting as PP has suggested? Or would that person be better treated to feel comfortable in their own body until such time as they are an adult and can make decisions for themselves.

No organisation should be recommending this. It is negligent. And instead of taking the tactic of 'well if they are going to do it, make sure they do it safely, they should be saying loudly and clearly, this is a dangerous practice and you should seek further mental health assistance.

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee:

I have a teenager under the care of CAMHS for MH issues. While we're waiting for the appointment for therapy to come through, we have been given advice on how to improve MH issues in the meantime.

Three of the things we've been advised to are:

• increase exercise
• increase time outdoors
• increase exposure to sunlight

It's not an opinion that advice to avoid exercise and sunlight isn't good for MH, it's a fact. That a charity which is supposed to advocate for young people is encouraging them to do things which are likely to exacerbate MH issues strikes me as grossly ill informed at best and irresponsible at worst.

It's not an opinion that advice to avoid exercise and sunlight isn't good for MH, it's a fact. That a charity which is supposed to advocate for young people is encouraging them to do things which are likely to exacerbate MH issues strikes me as grossly ill informed at best and irresponsible at worst

I remember watching a documentary by a dr who was worried about children being over medicated. He did one episode on anti depressants and discovered that in the young girl they were used on the side efgevts were worse than not taking them. They arent really tested on teenage brains. He enrolled the girl into some kid of outside forest activity therapy group. And being outside helped.

Theres only one reason they want kids indoors unable to exercise hooked up onto the Internet and that reason has nothing to do with their well being.

they should be saying loudly and clearly, this is a dangerous practice and you should seek further mental health assistance.

Yes, at the very least.

Exercise was one of the things that stopped me self harming. Learning to be proud of what my body could do made me want to look after it. That, and getting out of the house every day.

Anyone would think Mermaids didn’t want these girls to stop needing their binders.

I can’t think of anyone that I would ever recommend to stay indoors, not exercise and avoid sun. Nope. That’s a recipe for depression, it really is.

They are not mentally ill and it's quite insulting to insinuate that if they just took a bit of exercise then they would learn to live their bodies.

But you said they had to use binders because of their mental health, so how can they not be mentally ill?
Also, if they aren't mentally ill, why do they want a perfectly healthy part of their body removed? In fact if they aren't mentally ill why would they be having surgery to remove their breasts? Because there's obviously no physical reason to remove them.

it's not just women and girls that wear binders, non- binary people and men also wear them.

Non-binary people huh, so, women and girls then. People can identify as non-binary all they want, doesn't change the biological reality that they are either male or female.

That's why I don't usually come into this board, because there is no debate, no thinking that any opinion other than your own is wrong. Not even reading your replies, pointless even trying engage.

What, you mean like how you keep insisting that binders are perfectly safe and that trans is nothing to do with mental illness (except when you say so)? Did you ever consider you're trying to defend the indefensible?

Empress. Self harm is so widespread among teenage girls - this seems to me to be a new expression of it.

I would also like to point out that having a mental illness, of whatever type, is NOT SHAMEFUL, and it is very, very ableist to make out that it is.

Thousands of people suffer from a variety of MH issues over the course of their lives and it doesn't mean that they're weak or fucked up or "wrong" or whatever. Stigma against mental illness is still a massive problem, but there has been progress in recent years to de-stigmatize it.

It makes me very, very cross that certain trans supporters want to pretend that talking openly about the possibility of mental illness, or having a mental illness, or the suggestion that someone might have a mental illness if they are displaying symptoms of a mental illness, is somehow an insult. Because that's buying into MH stigma which is fucking ableist bullshit.

The real scandal is that we don't offer the resources to support those with MH issues in constructive, healthy ways.

I'm autistic, and I really struggled with the physical aspects of puberty as a teenage girl. I identify hugely with what trans* people describe. I loathed my breasts, and other things I won't go into detail about now, and I felt so alienated from the idea of womanhood. If I was a teenage girl today I would want a binder and I would potentially be non-binary. As it was, I was a teenage girl then, not now, and I had no-one to talk to about my misery and horror at my body.

I ended up taking up a sport and training most days, and focusing on what I could do with my body and not what it was anchored me in it. Simply put, exercise brought me peace with my body that I am not sure I would have achieved any other way.

My whole adult life has been better as a result of exercise in my teens.

And as a matter of fact I would appreciate an apology for that ableist bullshit. I don't feel in the least ashamed of my periods of depression and don't think body or gender identity dysmorphia is anything to be ashamed of either. I just disagree about the best ways to support those who experience it.

One on 4 people in the U.K. suffer from MH issues each year. Thesw numbers are growing. One in 8 get help.

Ugh.

They are not mentally ill and it's quite insulting to insinuate that if they just took a bit of exercise then they would learn to live their bodies.

And in the next breath:

I can use what language I like thank you, it is not offensive.

Another of the 'everyone is allowed to be offended by anything, except if you're female' brigade.

@CousinKrispy

I would also like to point out that having a mental illness, of whatever type, is NOT SHAMEFUL, and it is very, very ableist to make out that it is.

Thousands of people suffer from a variety of MH issues over the course of their lives and it doesn't mean that they're weak or fucked up or "wrong" or whatever. Stigma against mental illness is still a massive problem, but there has been progress in recent years to de-stigmatize it.

It makes me very, very cross that certain trans supporters want to pretend that talking openly about the possibility of mental illness, or having a mental illness, or the suggestion that someone might have a mental illness if they are displaying symptoms of a mental illness, is somehow an insult. Because that's buying into MH stigma which is fucking ableist bullshit.

The real scandal is that we don't offer the resources to support those with MH issues in constructive, healthy ways.

This is spot on Krispy

I identify hugely with what trans people describe. I loathed my breasts, and other things I won't go into detail about now, and I felt so alienated from the idea of womanhood. If I was a teenage girl today I would want a binder and I would potentially be non-binary*

No one likes puberty. If its early you arent ready y and if it's late you feel unbelievably on the outside of your friend groups/class mates.

More access to more food and better nutrition, childhood obesity, modified foods etc are amongst the theories as to why puberty is hitting much earlier these days.

It sucks. It gives you attention you dont want and are to young to understand what its all about.

But all of it is normal. Instead of reminding our children of this, telling then we have all been through it and we all come out the other side, and giving our children the tools to deal with it and taking on the role if the metaphorical punchbag fir them to release all their confusion and frustration at it all, we tell them.its optional, and medicalise it and re-enforce the ideas their bodies are wrong and encourage the complete hatred of and disconnect from their own bodies. And remove any safe space they may have left to deal with these changes.

Hear, hear, Krispy.

I agree Krispy. I too have suffered depression and it is not shameful in the least. And never shameful to admit it exists and to talk about it openly.

Why should it be shameful? I think everyone probably has a period of MH on their lives.

Exactly. We can have a discussion in which we disagree with the best ways to deal with MH issues, or symptoms that sound exactly like MH symptoms even if you don't want to give them that name. But pretending it's not bullshit stigmatising prejudice to gasp about how it's a INSULT to suggest certain thoughts and behaviours sound like MH symptoms and could therefore perhaps be alleviated in XYZ ways is disingenuous.

I mean, if someone is saying "ugh, feeling uncomfortable in your gender identity is koo-koo crazy and I just hate those icky crazy people!" then .... They're a dick. But I'd be really surprised if that was the stance taken by most people on this board.

Massive round of applause for krispy

I mean like a standing ovation.

This is one of the things that enrages me the most.

Without going into too many detail MH issues are a HUGE deal in my life- I work with young people with MH problems, there are a number of people in my family who have/had serious mental health conditions, someone close to me attempted suicide (and is not out of the woods yet) and I have my own problems I’m not willing to discuss on a message board.

Every one of those people is a human being, deserving of love and support, not being stigmatised, treated as though shameful or seen as a lesser person.

would also like to point out that having a mental illness, of whatever type, is NOT SHAMEFUL, and it is very, very ableist to make out that it is.

Absolutely, Krispy.

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Empress. Self harm is so widespread among teenage girls - this seems to me to be a new expression of it.

Yes, that’s how it sounds. And Mermaids are encouraging it.

100% agree with the MH comments - implying that MH issues are ‘unspeakable’ is a terrible move backwards. Thinking about the amount of money and effort that is and will be going into the lifelong medicalising of children and if the will was there that could have been utilised by a children’s charity that actually helped to improve children’s MH. It would be ideal if full NHS provision was there but the resources are finite. The long term cost of this scandal will further reduce the support resources available to children in the future.

Re. That's why I don't usually come into this board, because there is no debate, no thinking that any opinion other than your own is wrong. Not even reading your replies, pointless even trying engage. I thought that there was quite a lot of debate in here - maybe Lovley didn’t spot it because it is done in a civilised manner and no one gets cancelled?