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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Lanarkshire new policy on Transgender Employees ignores female staff's rights

91 replies

334bu · 10/08/2020 22:25

t.co/mQxXUG41xZ?amp=1
The above link should download a copy of the Lanarkshire policy on treatment of Transgender staff. No consideration of the needs of female staff or patients is mentioned. Totally ignores single sex exemptions.

OP posts:
Cailleach1 · 30/08/2020 18:49

Dido

If you are saying that this element of the Gender recognition Act 2004 doesn't apply in Scotland, I am happy to hear this is the case.
It is beyond irony that new legislation went out of it's way to uphold discrimination against women to inherit relative to men. Glad to hear Scotland is more progressive than that.

It is a feudal throwback, and will apply to very few. It is the principle, though.

Gender Recognition Act 2004

16Peerages etc.

The fact that a person’s gender has become the acquired gender under this Act—
(a)does not affect the descent of any peerage or dignity or title of honour, and^

(b)does not affect the devolution of any property limited (expressly or not) by a will or other instrument to devolve (as nearly as the law permits) along with any peerage or dignity or title of honour unless an intention that it should do so is expressed in the will or other instrument.

Wherever else it applies in the UK and for those affected, then I still think that Lanarkshire NHS seems to be the place to have your baby. As they say that sex is 'assigned', not recorded or observed, you could get 'male' assigned on the birth cert to ensure your girl won't be barred from inheriting because of their biology.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/16

Cailleach1 · 30/08/2020 19:02

Although, I don't see anywhere that this particular section does not fully apply to Scotland as I see referenced in some other sections.

Not saying there isn't other legislation. Just that I would expect to see this noted if that was the case.

Aesopfable · 16/09/2020 18:09

So it seems NHS Lanarkshire don’t assign sex at birth but the midwives have to decide on a gender...

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/684984/response/1637341/attach/3/Transgender%20guidance%20Pipet%20september%202020.doc?cookie_passthrough=1

Kit19 · 16/09/2020 18:12

That response sounds like it was cut & pasted from two different documents! Starts off about identifying sex then switches to gender & becomes a complete word salad

CharlieParley · 16/09/2020 18:34

From the response:

The 20 week pregnancy scan is called an anomaly scan. The primary purpose of this scan is to check the development of the baby. Parents will often ask the identity of their child. If this can be facilitated the sonographer will try to ascertain gender based on physical features.

Sex is not an identity. It is material reality. A biological fact. To put it in other words identity = personality. It develops after birth. No sonographer can ascertain the future personality traits of the child from an ultrasound scan.

This nonsense is typical for the ideology though. It deliberately sets out to confuse and bamboozle, because that makes it much harder to object.

OneEpisode · 16/09/2020 18:35

For home births there only seems to be one midwife (I thought there would be two?) All women who opt for a home birth will have a midwife in attendance who will declare the baby’s sex at birth in partnership with the parents
What does the partnership thing mean? Majority vote? Is that why only one midwife so it’s an odd number and no risk of a tie?

ThinEndoftheWedge · 16/09/2020 19:46

Parents will often ask the identity of their child

Perhaps we need another FOI requesting details of the percentage of parents who ask at the trust:

A. What sex is the baby?
B. Is the baby a boy or a girl?
C. What’s my baby’s identity?

OvaHere · 16/09/2020 19:53

@OneEpisode

For home births there only seems to be one midwife (I thought there would be two?) All women who opt for a home birth will have a midwife in attendance who will declare the baby’s sex at birth in partnership with the parents What does the partnership thing mean? Majority vote? Is that why only one midwife so it’s an odd number and no risk of a tie?
I've had two homebirths, quite a while ago now but I'd be surprised if it had changed. You could have one midwife for the majority of the labour but a second one had to be present for delivery.
gardenbird48 · 16/09/2020 19:54

Parents will often ask the identity of their child
Maybe they offer a free naming service for parents that are too tired to think of one themselves?

OvaHere · 16/09/2020 19:57

People are going to want to start registering their babies as non binary aren't they? Has this already been lobbied for? It probably has somewhere.

OneEpisode · 16/09/2020 21:10

Mermaids are tweeting about how non-binary rights have had a big win.

I am definitely not a lawyer, but it seems an employee at the Jaguar Land Rover plant was harassed after the engineer started to wear “women’s clothing“. The person is referred to as Ms Taylor and “she” by Robin Moira White’s statement and in the Forbes article but also as non-binary. (The law should of course protect all people from harassment.)

This finding is being hailed as a recognition of NB as qualifying for the Equality Act gender reassignment thing. I don’t know if it’s significant, Again IANAL.

EyesOpening · 16/09/2020 21:14

Parents will often ask the identity of their child

Who is this baby?

OldCrone · 16/09/2020 21:44

The 20 week pregnancy scan is called an anomaly scan. The primary purpose of this scan is to check the development of the baby. Parents will often ask the identity of their child. If this can be facilitated the sonographer will try to ascertain gender based on physical features.

After using 'gender' in this paragraph to mean 'sex', they say later in the response:

In relation to the ‘Supporting Trans Staff in the Workplace Policy’ that you refer to, NHS Lanarkshire recognises, for trans people, their gender doesn’t align with the sex physically identified at birth.

If 'gender' is based on the appearance of the genitalia, how can a person have a 'gender' which doesn't align with their sex?

Escapeplanning · 16/09/2020 22:04

@EyesOpening

Parents will often ask the identity of their child

Who is this baby?

Funny 🤣
DeaconBoo · 16/09/2020 22:17

[quote Aesopfable]So it seems NHS Lanarkshire don’t assign sex at birth but the midwives have to decide on a gender...

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/684984/response/1637341/attach/3/Transgender%20guidance%20Pipet%20september%202020.doc?cookie_passthrough=1[/quote]
My sense of humour about this tactic is wearing incredibly thin. What an absolute waste of everyone's time to answer a question that clearly was written to differentiate 'sex' and 'gender' with a response that conflates the two for some of it then separates it when there's a separate agenda.

I actually cannot believe that someone understands so little about the concepts of sex and gender that they innocently got confused when writing this confusing response that misses the point. It must be deliberate... or are they not bothering to read the question?

Redshoeblueshoe · 16/09/2020 22:17

I might get a job at an NHS Trust, I could quite easily spend all day writing shite.

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