Surrogacy for a family member - a moral dilemma

[WelliesandBrollies]

I’m considering offering to be a surrogate for my brother and his wife. I’d really like some input from my fellow feminists as I’m a regular poster on this board and and generally very critical of surrogacy.

My brother and his wife have been trying to have a baby for around 10 years now. They have had at least 10 rounds of IVF (I’m not too sure of the details, we used to talk about it a lot as I too went through IVF but my rounds were successful and I now have 2 children, that must have been heartbreaking for them). They can’t adopt as they currently live abroad for my brother’s work, so moving back would mean removing their adopted child from their country of birth and distancing the baby from their birth family. They have therefore decided to go down the surrogacy route.

I have tried to keep my opinions on exploiting a woman for her uterus to myself. I’ve spoken to my mum about it at length but while usually in agreement with me on these issues, she is blinded by her desire for her son to be happy. The solution I’ve come up with to volunteer myself. I’d be doing something incredible for my brother who I love really deeply, and no vulnerable women would be exploited. My husband has pointed out that I would be exploited, though, for my kindness and my morality.

I want to make it clear that nobody has actually even vaguely suggested that I be the surrogate, I’ve mentioned it to my mum and she said “absolutely not” And we haven’t talked about it since. I just can’t bear the thought of a poor foreign woman being exploited so my brother can have a family. But I can see the sadness in his eyes every time we speak at not being a father.

Any friends I’ve mentioned it too say I’m so brave and stunning but I just feel like it’s so much more complex than that. I don’t feel like I’m being 100% altruistic in my offer, I’m just as concerned about the potential surrogate they would use if it weren’t for me as I am about their happiness.

I don’t really know what I want from this thread. Advice/guidance/opinions?

Thank you all in advance

They feel it wouldn’t be right to adopt a child in the country they live in as my brother could be moved away for work again (back home or elsewhere) and that would entail removing the child from their home country.

OK, so they are not adoptive parents already. This at least suggests they have some clue about the needs of an adoptive child. It seems like it would be better for them to change careers and move somewhere they CAN adopt and stay permanently.

If they have had 10 years of failed IVF then TBH I doubt the success rate with their stored embryos is going to be much better, is it? Unless they are completely certain it is a uterine issue?

So then there's a risk of miscarriage for the surrogate i.e. you.

I know they aren't selling it to you, but if you are selling it to yourself as "I get to still see the baby" and think it's too much of a wrench to not see the baby, then however a non-related surrogate is thinking about it, she is going to still have that wrench, whether or not she thinks she will.

There was a story in the Guardian that was very similar, surrogate did it for her brother. I'll try to find it

I don’t understand why you think you have to have any involvement beyond advising your brother to do plenty of research as you are aware of women being exploited by surrogacy arrangements. You could add that it’s not always in the child’s best interests either and have they considered how things can go wrong? I’d be the “devil’s advocate” in an effort —pretence— to be helpful and supportive.

ok everybody who pulled me up on the turkey baster. I wasn’t thinking, i was having a brain fog menopausal moment. I’m sorry, I don’t want this thread to be derailed.

I’m sorry again, I’m stupid, I’m sorry.

Now back to the thread

I don’t understand
You said he had adopted a baby

Secret diary of a surrogate mother

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/apr/27/secret-diary-of-a-surrogate-mother?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

@Veganfortheanimals

I don’t understand You said he had adopted a baby

No I worded it clumsily. I said “ They can’t adopt as they currently live abroad for my brother’s work, so moving back would mean removing their adopted child from their country of birth and distancing the baby from their birth family. ”

I should have said their potential adopted child. Sorry

@Veganfortheanimals what OP actually said:

They can’t adopt as they currently live abroad for my brother’s work, so moving back would mean removing their adopted child from their country of birth and distancing the baby from their birth family.

So she’s saying that a removal would be hypothetical. They haven’t adopted.

MadamBatty Don't apologise, you gave me a little chuckle! We've all been there.

I could be a surrogate for my sister because I know that I would be able to have a relationship with the child but not for my brother as he would not really allow it plus I know in his heart he wants to live in America.

I think you are thinking of doing something that is very generous and kind but you really need to think about how you are going to feel afterwards. I would have found it very hard to carry and birth my baby and then have to willing hand him over

I have posted on many a surrogacy thread and am clearly anti all types of surrogacy, inc altruistic.

There are so many things that could go wrong, before, during and after. Anyone even considering this should read a lot about implantation, the anti-rejection drugs, multiple pregnancies (twins etc), selective abortion, etc. That's aside from all the moral issues of giving up your baby (genetics aside you would be the legal mother) and the legal side (contracts are not enforceable in the U.K. but would you agree an MOU on expenses, amino/tests, abortion, what if the babies was downs etc) and the parental order process.

There are also issues in families with altruistic surrogacy, would your SIL be jealous, would she and/or your brother want you to be distant from your niece/nephew fenders you had too close a relationship as they grow, would your own children understand that the baby isn't yours, how would it feel if you witness them disciplining the child in ways you don't or wouldn't...it could change your family dynamic entirely forever.

Two stories I note here. One surrogate mother to her brother and SIL found her SIL become super religious and almost indoctrinating the child years after the birth. Another was a surrogate mother was pregnant when her best friend split from his boyfriend and she was having to keep the baby whilst he recovered from the financial and mental stress of the break up.

There are lots of threads here and stories elsewhere to read for personal stories, but personally I hope you decide not to offer your body for this and they decide as a couple not to exploit another woman who lives in poverty, particularly from overseas, particularly during a time of a global pandemic.

They can’t adopt as they currently live abroad for my brother’s work, so moving back would mean removing their adopted child from their country of birth and distancing the baby from their birth family. They have therefore decided to go down the surrogacy route.

If they are adopting, then they will be removing the child from the birth family?

This is an impossible situation isn’t it. I think whatever you decide to do op, it won’t feel right.

I think you should perhaps delve deeper into their infertility journey? If theres a problem with the eggs you could potentially be carrying a child that will have a disability or end up having a miscarriage yourself.

Surrogacy has always made me feel a bit uncomfortable though.

@MadamBatty

ok everybody who pulled me up on the turkey baster. I wasn’t thinking, i was having a brain fog menopausal moment. I’m sorry, I don’t want this thread to be derailed.

I’m sorry again, I’m stupid, I’m sorry.

Now back to the thread

Sympathies. Bloody menopause

It’s interesting too that they don’t want to adopt because of taking the child away from their birth country, but they’re happy for someone to go through pregnancy and then give birth to their child for them.

I feel for them, I really do. It must be absolutely awful feeling so desperate for a child.

This situation in no way mirrors yours OP - the surrogate mother had sold twins to a Chinese couple and she was doing it for her sister who has always been her 'rock' before - but I share as a recent story and as an example of how altruistic surrogacy can change families, even those who's bonds were previously thought of as invincible.

Surrogacy Contracts - YouTube video - US www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3986438-surrogacy-contracts-youtube-video-us

Also google Mumsnet Ukraine Surrogacy for useful insight to share with your brother, if needed, on foreign commercial surrogacy if you want resources to share with your brother. I posted recent news stories of human trafficking/illegal surrogacy being uncovered in Russia and Thailand earlier today.

I'm against commercial surrogacy. I can see a slightly clearer argument in some cases in families but I think in your case this is not something you should burden yourself with as it will come at a huge cost to you.

You say they live in a country for his work that they may love from. Is that a different country from you?

Over and above many of the other thoughtful posts I wonder how would it feel to give birth and then that niece/nephew be immediately removed to another country? It would be hard enough handing a baby over, but to do it for a family member and then have all that distance.

It sounds like a bad idea to me. I really feel for your brother. It does sound like moving somewhere they intend to stay long term and adopting may be their beat option. Fraught as that is with its own challenges.

Whose egg and sperm will it be?
Your brothers sperm
And the egg is his wife's, yours or someone else?

I'm absolutely for altruistic surrogacy where it is given totally willingly. A close friend offered to be a surrogate for me while I was doing ivf. I love her for that but wanted to carry my own child. I never asked, and she thought it over with her husband for months before offering after reading a lot about the pros and cons being a surrogate. That is the only way surrogacy should be offered in my opinion.

In your case it doesn't sound like something you really want to do though. So if I'm right then don't do it. Explore your feelings without the "noise" of wanting to prevent surrogacy by someone else. It shouldn't feature in your decision.

No. It's not about the exploitation of the mother, it's about the exploitation of the child. Surrogacy entails deliberate, planned separation of a newborn from its mother. That is never in a newborn's best interests except in exceptional cirumstances where there is a clear risk from the birth mother.

It's bizarre that they won't take an adopted child away from its home country but will take it away from its mother.

And apart from that, there is too much potential for harm to you (how would you feel if the pregnancy left you, for example, permanently incontinent?) and to family relationships.

If they are serious about being parents I think they need to commit to what's necessary (from their pov) to adopt -- relocate permanently to the UK or commit to staying in the country they are in.

@RedRumTheHorse

As you have had IVF yourself to get pregnant I wouldn't think you were suitable for medical reasons. (Obviously, no-one on here knows why you needed IVF and it isn't any of our business. )

Also the fact your mum said definitely not would indicate she's probably thought about it and knows deep down this could cause family issues. After all while you are doing this for your brother, your SIL may not be the person you know on the surface.

Personally I think they should adopt and this is with knowing the trauma of adult friends and acquaintances who had inter-racial adoptions.

Above RedRumTheHorse said

'After all while you are doing this for your brother, your SIL may not be the person you know on the surface'

And this is worth expanding, it's not just your SIL you may not know well enough, your brother may not be the person you thought you knew. I thought I was close to my brother but found I didn't know him at all and if I'd done something like be a surrogate I'd have been devastated when his true character came to light.

No one what's to think of the possibility our close relatives may do something wrong but every criminal is someone's relative and often it comes as a complete shock to those closest to them.

'wants' not 'what's'

Surrogacy is always wrong, IMO. It treats pregnancy, birth and the baby as commodities and there is always an element of risk, exploitation and emotional fallout.

DH's family had long-standing friends who he more or less grew up with. One sister had a baby for the other sister. There were no secrets - everyone knew and the 'donated' son grew up knowing who his bio parents were (there was no IVF or donated egg or sperm - she had a baby with her husband in order to give it to her sister). However, all the relationships in that family became totally poisoned. I have since read of other cases which have ended very badly.

I used to think altruistic surrogacy (for a family member or very close friend) to be an act of kindness.

Very similar in fact to a kidney donation in the instance that both carry risks.

Though I've always been opposed to commercial surrogacy.

Now I'm not so sure.

For a start we're not talking about an agreement between 2 consenting adults who are aware of the risks in the case of a transplant.

Re: surrogacy there is a child in the middle of this who has no say whatsoever if things go wrong.

Equally, there are often other children in the picture (the surrogates) who I can't believe don't experience some sort of confusion over mummy being pregnant with a child that is not related to them or indeed is related to them but will never be their sibling. They also have a lot of skin in the game if anything goes wrong - even relatively common but debilitating issues like PND or even PTSD.

I also now feel that altruistic surrogacy is rolled out as a reason why it's a good thing and in that sense it becomes a gateway for accepting commercial surrogacy as the same.

I know it's something I couldn't do even for someone close to me.

A child is never a right nor is it a gift to be given.

I'm obviously very sympathetic to people suffering with infertility (and have had several miscarriages before finally successfully conceiving my DS) but I feel more and more strongly that surrogacy isn't the answer.

In a way OP the fact you are considering this demonstrates your female socialisation - to help, be kind and put not only your DB/SIL in front of your own best interests (and your children's) but also potentially an unknown woman.

You say adoption is problematic because they live abroad - well perhaps that's a measure of how much they are prepared to invest in having a baby in the sense they could return to the U.K. or make a decision to make their current location a permanent home. Or in truth is that they want a baby that's biologically theirs?

There's so much that could go wrong as others have posted even if the pregnancy and birth go well.

I think you are potentially considering a beautiful hypothetical scenario where you "gift" DB and SIL with a child and everything is awsome and you are a "special" auntie.

But what if they divorce and it's not amicable and you never see this child again? What if you disagree with their parenting style?

What if you miscarry? How many "tries" are you prepared to go through?

From having IVF you know the commitment in terms of medical treatment/appointments - time you'll spend away from your family that might be magnified by multiple attempts.

What if there is pressure on you to provide a sibling and a rift develops because you "selfishly" won't do it again?

So very many ways for this not to bring joy to a family but heartache.

I'm genuinely sorry for your DB and SIL but I honestly don't believe you acting as a surrogate is the answer.