For those who have kids at university - wokedom

[Teal99]

I have no kids, never went to uni - but where I work there are of young graduates who all seem to be totally on board with the trans woman is a woman concept, using pronouns and all manner of wokedom. They all seem like one group who all say the same things, think the same way....

Just for curiosity, if you have children at uni, or just graduated - are there people in this age group who think differently, even if they don't publicly express to their peers/friends that they don't agree with them? I think there must be some individual thought, which must be hard if they want to fit in/not be ostracised.

I think I just want a bit of hope that this period of madness will pass by and people will start to push back against a lot of wokedom. Or is the toothpaste too far out of the tube?

Interesting thread. I have a 17 yo son who seems to be pretty grounded in reality. He has gently challenged my views (which I think is healthy) but usually concedes that I have a point.

Interestingly he has been against the whole identity politics thing since he was about 14, but was watching quite a lot of YouTubers at that point which also exposed him to more dodgy ideas. We had to have a few conversations about critical thinking which have probably paid off.

My 13 yo

Worth repeating:

You seem very reluctant to explain your policy Redtrees.

@HesMyLobster could I ask if the signs for men at your DD's university are spelled mxn?

My daughter is 14 but very mature. I have tried 3 times to talk to her about it but she gets in such a state. Despite being very intelligent & articulate, and wanting to be a scientist/doctor she can't /won't explain why she disagrees with me, but absolutely does not want to listen to the other side of the argument, no matter how calm I am about it. I think she's terrified that if we discuss it she might just see sense and then she won't be cool any more. She said yesterday "all my friends feel the way I do and all their mums feel the way you do" (no dads mentioned!) I've been speaking to people - mostly women- about this irl and have found very few who know anything about the real issues nor seem to care, sadly.

It's very telling that these woke young people get emotional when challenged on their opinions, and can't or won't debate them. Hopefully the penny will drop eventually as to why.

Someone I follow on Twitter has just shared this article. It’s peak gaslighting.

The person who shared it is ‘right leaning’. He is the author of a book explaining the political trends behind the Brexit vote. He predicted the result of the general election in December spot on. I have seen the abuse he gets on Twitter from left-leaning academics including the author of this ‘article’.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/04/rightwing-academic-freedom-policy-exchange-thinktank?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1596539110

I have a friend who is an academic and identifies as she/them but while I do think she genuinely believes it all, I also think if she were surrounded by different people she’d be gender critical, especially since she’s a lesbian. She’s Autistic and really quite impressionable so buys into the wokeness at her uni. Any other period in history she’d be perfectly happy just being the butch lesbian that she is. I’ve said to her I think she’s fantastic without any labels and she’s admitted to me she wishes gender stereotypes didn’t exist at all. She said something interesting the other day, we weren’t even having a deep discussion, I was joking/exasperated at my husband casually wandering around the house naked even though we have a path behind our back garden and people would see and she said, “well, it’s his house, I suppose he can do what he wants. I wish I could just wander around naked but nudity isn’t the same with our bodies, you know? If people look in my window and see me naked it’s intrusive.” I really wanted to ask her how she reconciled that with TW in changing rooms etc but she seemed very vulnerable so I just nodded in agreement. That exchange makes me think deep down she agrees with me but this opinions don’t seem compatible with how she is at work etc

@PavlovaTescobar

My children, late twenties/early thirties, all went to state school followed by university. None of them believe in the woke trans women are real women philosophy. They are all down to earth and working in responsible jobs where their colleagues of the same age seem to be of similar belief. I do think that many young people, particularly from more sheltered backgrounds are very naive about gender politics and don’t seem to have a lot of real life experience.

My son, age 35, daughter, 30, and (scientist) son in law, 33, are all very GC and think it is a load of bollocks. They have daughters and are concerned. However, my son thinks it's a minor issue compared to real world problems, and what we should really be campaigning about is environmental issues and war and children starving in Yemen and elsewhere. I've told him we can support ALL these movements, but the GC one is one we can actually fight at grass-roots level, and win.

^ they are all graduates but did not encounter it at uni. It's so recent!

Lamahaha my mum is a scientist (genetics) so obviously understands what a woman is but is like your son, thinks that it’s a very small problem compared the big issues in the world. Of course she didn’t have to worry about men alone in changing rooms with me like I have to with my daughter 😞

I know two girls at a well regarded university. One started off as a lesbian but is now non binary and raising funds for masculinisation treatment/surgery and the other is super woke and lecturing everyone. I wonder if there are particular universities that have very active GI promoters?

Perhaps there needs to be a 'Complete Woke University Guide' so parents can decide which ones they're happy to fund their children to go to?
That might make them think a bit about how they treat their academics for a start!

DD is a student teacher and she is completely in step with my GC views. And so is DD2 who will start uni next year. Maybe because I've lectured them and given evidence of the erosion of women's rights. All thanks to the wise women of FWR.

@Divoc2020

Perhaps there needs to be a 'Complete Woke University Guide' so parents can decide which ones they're happy to fund their children to go to? That might make them think a bit about how they treat their academics for a start!

There is certain London University that I feel should be at number 1, judging by the views of its alumni.

“ Perhaps there needs to be a 'Complete Woke University Guide' so parents can decide which ones they're happy to fund their children to go to?
That might make them think a bit about how they treat their academics for a start!”

At the risk of repetition, you’d have to first be able to define ‘woke’

One of my DC is currently considering which university to go to. I would really appreciate a guide as to which ones genuinely support diversity of opinions, freedom of speech and open debate in a spirit of furthering knowledge and understanding.

Does anyone know, are there any like that?

I suppose they can't be named publicly for fear of the consequences...

It seems to me that university education has really gone down hill since the introduction of tuition fees and the commercialisation of the sector.

@RedtreesRedtrees

“ Perhaps there needs to be a 'Complete Woke University Guide' so parents can decide which ones they're happy to fund their children to go to? That might make them think a bit about how they treat their academics for a start!”

At the risk of repetition, you’d have to first be able to define ‘woke’

Yes, Redtrees, you would, wouldn't you?

Why is that, do you think?

Edge I’m sure we’ve covered this already. There is a clear dictionary definition of ‘woke’ but very few posters here use it according to that definition. Instead it seems to be used as some sort of ambiguous pejorative. A few people have been kind enough to expand on what they think it means. Others I suspect don’t really know or haven’t thought about it. It’s interesting to have an entire thread of people describing other people (often their own children) as ‘woke’ with seemingly no consensus on what the term means. This from a forum that is usually (and rightly) obsessed by definitions.

There’s a pretty clear dictionary definition of “woman” too 🤷🏽‍♀️

I know and I’ve set it out twice on this thread already!

My DD20 is fully woke on trans women are women. My DS17 probably not but he keeps his thoughts to himself. Its generally my impression from their friends is that its young women who are the most woke. The men are more sceptical.

I had a big argument with my DD about feminism and women's rights with regards to the trans issue on Tuesday.

Redtrees, do you identify yourself as "woke"?

I don't, though I care about a lot of things including the environment, child protection, free speech and women's sport.

I think the definition may come from through differential analysis rather from dictionaries.

Its a bit like Transwomen are Women, but Trans Women are not Cis Women, which seems to be the current "woke" definitions.

Why not Ciswomen are Women, and Transwomen are Transwomen.

As above, I would define myself as woke by reference to the dictionary definition.

I love (by which I mean I don’t) how something that affects 50% of the population is written off by men as not important

I know and I’ve set it out twice on this thread already!

And yet you’ve also posted this:

There are definitions of woman that include men.