It gets worse - a new, fresh hell

[WootMoggie]

Medical paper in which it is argued that non-binary children should be given puberty blockers FOR LIFE
^
"In this article, we analyse the novel case of Phoenix, a non-binary adult requesting ongoing puberty suppression (OPS) to permanently prevent the development of secondary sex characteristics, as a way of affirming their gender identity. We argue that (1) the aim of OPS is consistent with the proper goals of medicine to promote well-being, and therefore could ethically be offered to non-binary adults in principle;"

"Phoenix, 18, was assigned female at birth but has identified as gender non-binary (not entirely/exclusively male or female) since age 5."
^

• and so it begins.

Lord help us keep these clinicians away from our families. Puberty is a scary thing, but this line of thinking is essentially redefining it as optional.

jme.bmj.com/content/early/2020/07/24/medethics-2019-106012

It's unbearable, isn't it?

I can honestly say this stuff is no longer "merely' enraging me - it's having a seriously detrimental effect. I feel like bringing up my children is a race against time whilst the walls are closing in around us.

The solidity of the common-sense, robust democratic worldview that my reality is based on, seems to be melting like snow.

Is this based on a real person, or is this paper an exercise in 'ethics'?

In this paper, we identify and analyse the key ethical issues relevant to Phoenix’s case, a hypothetical yet realistic case based on clinical experience.

Keeping women in a permanently prepubescent state, what on earth could be wrong with that?

Possible side effects of puberty blockers are really skimmed over. Infertility and loss of bone density are mentioned briefly but I didn't see effects on brain/intelligence mentioned.

Have googled the main author and can't decide if they appear trans or not. Thoughts?

law.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/lauren-notini

Phoenix wants to stay on puberty blockers their whole life.

Phoenix’s new doctor ... wonders if Phoenix has underlying psychological issues about not wanting to grow up.

Phoenix has regular counselling with the psychologist, who judges that Phoenix’s distress is significant and enduring, and is not a symptom of an underlying psychopathology.

I would love to know what an "underlying psychopathology" is if having such severe distress at the thought of your body's natural development you want to remain pre-puberty your whole life isn't it.

Here is another paper from Lauren Notini:

Should Parental Refusal of Puberty-Blocking Treatment be Overridden? The Role of the Harm Principle

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15265161.2018.1557283?scroll=top&needAccess=true

Very scary stuff.

Thanks for pointing out 'hypothetical' - I missed that (although it's cold comfort really)

I wonder whether this is less of a thought experiment and more a "how can we profit from these trends in a defensible way?"

This might be a stupid question, but does it open the door for a kind of “Peter pan” type identity... since there’s been cases of adult men identifying as 8 year old girls and one young person I saw an interview with who wanted to identify as non-human and had his navel removed, would remaining permanently pre-pubescent have an appeal of its own beyond the “non binary” element?

Would taking puberty blockers in order to stop secondary sex characteristics also act to keep someone as a sort of artificial child? Certain people are already taking about “wrong puberty” being traumatic/abusive.

It’s really chilling to even imagine experimenting on children in this way. Hopefully a hypothetical exploration of the issue would prevent it ever actually happening on ethical grounds?

From age 5.
I wanted to be a horse.
I want to cry.

There must be serious concerns about brain development around this, surely?! The brain develops so much during puberty, and there are already studies that show puberty blockers have an impact on IQ even in short term usage.

These people are either so detached from reality that they shouldn't be in a position to be conducting and publishing research (even hypothetical ethical papers) or they are so sick they also shouldn't.

Anybody who doesn't find this scary is also in one of those two categories.

Update - I have managed to find an audio clip on twitter of Dr Lauren Notini being interviewed on the radio, and she does sound biologically female.

Keeping women in a permanently prepubescent state, what on earth could be wrong with that?

It only takes a moment's thought to see one very likely motivation for this.

The physical side effects are awful enough, but the idea of stopping a child's mental development is so shocking. Especially as the brain develops back to front - the last things you get are rational thought, being able to deal with complex concepts etc. Giving puberty blockers for gender reasons (as opposed to their original purpose of delaying early puberty to the right age) seems like you are gifting a child a learning and cognitive disability in comparison with their peers. To do that voluntarily is just beyond me...

The profits from this are almost unimaginable compared to the short-term transitional use that has been discussed up to now.

I think ultimately what's needed, as Marcus Evans said in Posie Parker's interview (if I recall it correctly) is for governments to take a clear, unequivocal stance on any medical or surgical pathway for anyone under 18.

At the moment, there's no proper guidelines or guidelines are being sidestepped by clinicians who are either under a lot of pressure from trans lobby groups and 'charities' or who have a god complex themselves and see nothing wrong with experimenting on children. Plus any psychotherapy intervention is deemed as conversion therapy by the shrill activists.

If governments cracked down on this sort of stuff and made it clear that nothing of the sort should be taking place for under 18s then it's easier for clinicians to say 'sorry it's the law'.

Unfortunately, getting governments to take these issues seriously is another giant hurdle.

I would love to know what an "underlying psychopathology" is if having such severe distress at the thought of your body's natural development you want to remain pre-puberty your whole life isn't it.

Exactly. I don't know why these people are allowed to publish stuff like this, which is advocating a very fundamental breach in ethics. How can you justify treating children like that? How?

Re: Lauren

"Her main research interests include paediatric bioethics, clinical ethics, empirical bioethics and the ethics of assisted reproductive technologies."

"Her PhD project, [was] titled ‘Appearance-altering facial surgery on children: An empirically informed ethical analysis,’

"Lauren is working on various projects, including those relating to transgender health, next-generation gene sequencing in paediatrics, elective children’s surgeries, and emerging assisted reproductive technologies such as mitochondrial replacement and in vitro-derived gametes."

law.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/lauren-notini

It's interesting because Lauren is very aware that parents who want plastic surgery on young children may not have their children's best interests at heart and yet she appears to be unable to conceive that parents may not have their children's best interests when they encourage puberty blockers.

This is very disturbing.

I can't get a handle on how many people might present like this, or how likely it is that this would become common practice. I hope to god it's not a realistic prospect

[quote LittleCabbage]Possible side effects of puberty blockers are really skimmed over. Infertility and loss of bone density are mentioned briefly but I didn't see effects on brain/intelligence mentioned.

Have googled the main author and can't decide if they appear trans or not. Thoughts?

law.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/lauren-notini[/quote]
No! Don't do that! Don't assume that a woman's research must be that of a man just because you disagree with her. And shame for judging her by her looks! That's exactly what TRAs accuse women of!

To answer the question though, she is female.

The similarities to anorexia in etiology (avoidance of pubescent body, likelihood of history of abuse) are terrifying. How are these psychologists and doctors not seeing this??

A pedophiles dream. What is the world coming to?