Sex sex you mean sex Not gender

[Kit19]

Sex not gender fgs you’re a university

I agree with JKrowling92. The insistence that we should 'know the difference between sex and gender' risks implying that the two are different but valid ways of defining a person. It implies that we think that although someone born a man can never become a biological woman, he can become a person 'of female gender'. Whatever the hell that is.

In my opinion there's no such thing as a person who is 'of female gender' but not biologically female, which is why I'm not particularly bothered by people using the words interchangeably. There are plenty of men who might have hobbies/jobs/likes or dislikes which have been traditionally associated with women, but does that really mean they are 'of female gender'? Nope. It just means they like/dislike those things. We need to keep dismantling the stereotypes, not finding new ways if labelling people who don't conform to them.

@Shedbuilder

So why do you say that a woman can identify out of being a woman by putting on men's clothes?

I don’t say that, TRA say it.

I would say it's a stereotypical feminine gender not female gender. Many people have feminine and masculine traits. We all have both to some degree.

Personally I don't have a gender though. I have different traits that are perceived as typically feminine or masculine.

Cross-posted. Just because sexist stereotypes exist, that doesn't mean we have to agree that they are a valid way of labelling people.

I cannot think of a situation where I would use the word 'gender' except as a synonym for biological sex. Can anyone give an example of where they would?

I mean... would you say "Well, my baby is biologically female, but who knows what gender she/they will turn out to be!"

Or "My friend is biologically male, but his gender is female"? I imagine you might say "But he identifies as a woman", but that's not using the word 'gender'.

I have commented on their 'report a page' section. Universities should know what words mean and use them properly.

I don't agree that gender exists. I'm of the belief that anyone should be able to dress and act how they like (without hurting anyone else) and should be left to get on with it without any prejudice or discrimination. We should be fighting against gender roles. I believe that gender replaces sex in a lot of area as they didn't want to use the word sex. Now many people are using gender to replace sex for many different reasons. And they are expecting the rest of us to accept it.

In other words Gender as an alternative word to sex should no longer be used as such because if the issues we are seeing.

"Well, my baby is biologically female, but who knows what gender she/they will turn out to be!"

But that's exactly what people who believe in identity politics are saying.

I agree that gender had become the polite word for sex over the years and had become almost synonymous, which played beautifully into the TRAs hands because if created a fog. That plus the GRC formalising the fiction that one can change sex has muddied the waters greatly.

To me it's really, really, important that we sort the language out and that we don't conflate sex and gender. Which is why I contacted the LSE and pointed out that they had received a grant to investigate sex differences between men and women's response to the Covid-19 virus, not gender differences. It's the LSE, it should be grown-up enough to manage the word 'sex' without blushing.

It doesn't really matter what people's 'gender identities' are for the purposes of that study. If you are more at risk of dying from Covid because you are biologically male, then it's sex which matters, not what you feel yourself to be. A university should be aware of that and ought to be using language accurately.

Of the issues we are seeing

@lazylinguist Based on what other users have said gender as a social construct might be been useful in the past as a way of dismantling gender stereotypes. However now that it is being used in new ways to underpin TRA, maybe it’s worth re-examining?

I did have this conversation where someone said to me "oh you're confusing sex and gender", using the argument that a girl was a boy because she said so (gender) but my insistence she is a girl was about sex.

That's where it's been confused, because trans activists often accept that sex can't be changed, but still insist that girl is really a boy.

When talking about what someone "is", we must talk about the reality of their sex. The language has been deliberately confused.

[quote Kit19]www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-news-from-LSE/2020/g-July-20/COVID19-gender-study-gets-funding-boost[/quote]
Maybe gender is relevant....

Perhaps if you wear a skirt rather than trousers, or mascara or even glitter - or use knitting kneedles... the 'Rona leaves you alone?

SAGER - Sex and Gender Equity in Research guidelines are a good read:

researchintegrityjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41073-016-0007-6

Heidari S, Babor T, De Castro P, Tort S, Curno M. Sex and Gender Equity in Research: rationale for the SAGER guidelines and recommended use. Research Integrity and Peer Review. 2016;1:2.

Isn't it time to get rid of the GRA and to use the term Sex. I have a feeling in the early 2000's that gender was used as a polite term on forms etc. and has been hijacked.

I don't think it's the academic use because that can be corrected. It's the common use in schools etc without people knowing what it really means.

We will never clear this mess up unless we control language that is being used in our names.

This isn't very clear, I'm having difficulty wording what I feel

I think it's important to remember the full definition of woman as 'adult human female'.
I think the 'female' bit is often focused on especially as its the comparison to male.

However adult = not juvenile. Woman to girl/child is a bit like mare to filly/foal.

Female is the sex geared to produce large gametes. A woman is female in exactly the same way a cat can be female. But how are adult female cats different from women?

Human is key.
Lots of animals are 'adult and female' and they are characteristics shared across species.
Half the population are 'human and female' but some will be younger than 'adult'.
Woman only applies to adult human females.
We know humans are complex and intelligent with personalities.

By saying adult human males are women, you are saying adult human males are adult human females.

'Woman' isn't a gender, it's a descriptor of the age + sex + species.

That's why I think it's fundamentally incorrect to say there is such a thing as a female gender. Not all females across all species share a gender.
There is also no such thing as an 'adult human female' or 'woman' gender. There is not a gender shared by women. That's the conflation of sex and gender that is harmful and being exploited. It's like saying there is a female aura. It's that nebulous and disconnected from sex.

However there is a feminine gender that has been created by society. But feminine = / = female.

I feel it's important to remember the human part of adult human female. It's why GC feminists aren't 'reducing people down to their body parts' by highlighting the definition of woman. They are acknowledging both the sex and the humanity of women. That they are not just a sex, they are human with varying personalities, intellects and characters.

Woman doesn't refer to the human creation of gender but to the existence of human females themselves.

How on earth can Covid 19 affect gender or vice versa? As an academic study surely it's actually focusing on the sex of the person (s) so it's title should reflect that. I have reported the page.

I'd taken it as a joke.

Happy to see the word gender removed from all laws etc and replaced by sex. Much clearer.

The SAGER guidelines seem, on a cursory reading (I'm supposed to be working) totally woke: they acknowledge sex and promote a wide spectrum of genders. I think in their case they're using 'gender' to mean what used to be meant by personality — the kind of person a person is and the way they express themselves.

I cannot think of a situation where I would use the word 'gender' except as a synonym for biological sex. Can anyone give an example of where they would?

I use 'gender' in its linguistic sense, particularly in languages in which all nouns have a gender (masculine or feminine, also neuter in some languages). In humans and animals the gender often corresponds to the sex, but not always.

So I tend to think of gender as masculine or feminine, which might apply to objects as well as people or animals, and sex as male or female.

SAGER guidelines are useful to persuade authors:
to acknowledge the number of male/female trial participants;
to provide sex disaggregated data analysis of the results.

At an early enough stage, they can improve the design of trial protocols.

Based on what other users have said gender as a social construct might be been useful in the past as a way of dismantling gender stereotypes. However now that it is being used in new ways to underpin TRA, maybe it’s worth re-examining?

But gender is a social construct. It's the cultural and societal expectations which are placed on us because of our sex.

The way it's used by TRAs is to suggest that we all have a gender, in the same way as we all have a sex. We don't, except in linguistic terms (which doesn't really apply in English because we don't have gendered nouns with articles and adjectives which have to agree with those genders).

Gender is the mechanism by which we are persuaded that there are right and wrong ways to behave depending on our sex. If you start suggesting that gender is the same as sex, you are saying that there is a right and wrong way to behave depending on our sex, and that we all have to conform to stereotypes.

My Gender critical beliefs mean that as far as I'm concerned, Gender is nonsense. I'm a football season ticket holder. Ive been going to football since I was 18 months old. I've never had a manicure or any type of beauty therapy in my life. I regularly go out of the house with hair scraped back and no make up. I was often described as a bit of a tomboy. I drink and swear like a trooper. However, I also like nice clothes and getting a bit dressed up when I go out. I'm still a woman because I was born one. I believe that everyone should be able to wear and present themselves however they want and not be restricted in their likes and dislikes.

Embarrassing, how do you construct a trial to take into account gender if as they say there is a huge spectrum of genders. I forget how many I've seen quoted: 700 or so was it?

Gender is the mechanism by which we are persuaded that there are right and wrong ways to behave depending on our sex. If you start suggesting that gender is the same as sex, you are saying that there is a right and wrong way to behave depending on our sex, and that we all have to conform to stereotypes.

Old Crone, thank you for this, which is what I was trying to say and thought I had said in a roundabout way. You are far more clear and concise than I am. And yes, that was exactly what I read jkrowling92 as saying.