"Survivors Must Fight For Trans Women Too" thoughts?

[Happy101]

Stumbled across this article, and was shocked to see some of the sentiments being displayed, primarily accusing domestic abuse survivors of weaponising their trauma to stop access for trans-women to their shelters. Quite a shocking read that places the protection of trans-women at the feet of already extremely vulnerable women? I've always been pro-trans, but this has just really rubbed me the wrong way for some reason and is making me question a lot of what this movement is seeking to achieve

Link: www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2020/07/9919890/transphobia-and-domestic-violence

Awful article- they work with the abused?
Good grief it's all a bit "move over you (cis) women- Now!!"

Agree TW need services tailored to their own specific needs

Has there been any incidences of transwomen being murdered by their partner or former partner
According to ONS deaths are recorded by sex, so unless being Trans is listed as the reason for the murder in crime stats it wouldn't be listed.

I knew one Gay kid at school who was killed by his boyfriend in his 30s, it wasn't even classed as Domestic Abuse despite witnesses hearing his boyfriend shouting "When did you fuck him? Bullshit you were in his flat all morning" and hearing him sobbing and screaming "Sorry" after he'd stabbed and beaten him to death. Pretty standard DV witness statements I thought.
Instead it was treated as a 'fight' between Two men that left One dead. Manslaughter.

I suspect shit like that happens a fair bit. Yet Gay men are not claiming they need refuge space from Women.

@blubellsarebells

"The solution is self contained refuges for every survivor." Women are not asking for that and we dont need it, we just want spaces to heal away from men... What kind of men wont let us, rape and abuse survivors, have that? Men who trample womens boundaries and think their identities trump women's lived realities and traumas are exactly the kind of men that we need to be keeping out. We've already been raped and violated, men that ignore our 'no' are not good people. If trans women were women they would intrinsically understand how to be our sisters.

You might not be asking for that but I am. As a victim (I don't see myself as asurvivor simply because I'm not yet dead). You might not feel the need but I do. We're all different. Sorry to slightly detail the thread but it's sort of a related issue. I know I'm not the only woman who hasn't left violent relationships because of the fear of shared refuges - with anyone.

That doesn't mean I don't also want access to other safe single sex spaces (as well as specialist safe spaces for trans survivors), but having a safe secure home is the biggest priority and self contained refuges across-the-board would meet the needs of all survivors - including trans.

There are national stats regarding trans deaths in the past decade as with every other group: they've been referred to on other threads so someone brilliant will know the source.

As far as I remember, it was less than ten, several had been murdered by other TW, several died in the line of sex work, and I don't think any were DV or domestic murders.

And yy to the poster who pointed out: this has nothing to do with meeting anyone's needs. This has everything to do with removing provision from females and enforcing female subordination to males. With demands that females should be willingly embracing this.

Warped.

I’m not sure I believe that only 7.5 % of women have experienced DV either.

2018 Mumsnet with Women's Aid video.

'Walking on eggshells'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC1pCi-GwGU

"A new Mumsnet survey to mark the 16 Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence, run in partnership with Women’s Aid and Surrey Police, reveals that 38% of the survey respondents say they have been in a controlling or abusive relationship* with a partner – but almost a quarter (24%) of users who said they had been in a controlling or abusive relationship told no-one about any incidents of controlling or abusive behaviour"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

We currently have a situation where vulnerable victims of domestic violence, who've gone through violence and rape, sometimes get housed (after refuge) in mixed sex HMOs, hostels, and rented rooms sharing facilities with other (mixed sex) residents including potentially violent ex offenders (male, female, trans or not).
That's definitely inappropriate. Deeply retraumatising and unsafe.
So I think the need for safe self contained housing for survivors fleeing violence is extremely important.

Sorry haven't had time to read all of this thread. I read this article yesterday but couldn't get their comment section to work.

The main issue with this is the outright lies it is based on. ie they are trying to trans the past.

When refuges were set up there was never any intention that trans women would be included.

The whole basis of WOMEN's refuges were based on the analysis that it is the common oppression of women as a sex class by men as a sex class that means the service and support is informed by the common oppression - one of which is men's violence.

So the whole tone of trans women are being martyred is just part of the "we are the real victims".

But the article is another indication of just how far the trans narrative is now accepted as THE narrative across a range of publications including Refinery29 and high end glossies like Harpers Bazaar. So on all platforms the trans narrative of horrible "cis" women being nasty to poor trans women is endlessly seeping into it's primarily female readership.

And I very much doubt there is any right of reply.

And of course gender critical women are not given the same access to having their voices heard.

The 7.5% figure in the article refers to women who've experienced domestic abuse in the last year, I believe. Whether it's still too low, I don't know.

Have just checked their facebook page and it looks like some women have said the reporting just isn't factually correct.

And also they could very easily have reported that in fact some refuges do accept trans women - and some dont.

I couldn't help but laugh at their warning at the start of the article that there were harmful expressions of transphobia.

As far as I could see these seemed be women who dont accept the trans narrative.

If as they claim they are both workers in Refuges why haven't they taken the decision to work in a refuge that does offer services to other trans women who they are best place to support.

To insist on being in a refuge that doesn't accept trans women is just part of the power play of you must accept who I say I am even if it means you have to deny who you are.

Its just part of the emotional wind up of what seems to be an endless supply of sob stories being sold to the media.

@Michelleoftheresistance I haven't found them, the ONS are in the process of starting to, up until now it's been a fair bit of guesswork from press and courts and the reason given by ONS is pretty understandable

"The ONS doesn’t publish specific figures on trans and non-binary victims of violent hate crime because the Crime Survey “generates very few cases of hate crimes against transgender individuals due to a small sample size. Releasing this information could be equivalent to releasing individual personal details which we are legally obliged not to do.”

I wound up stuck on ONS and Crime Stats site for hours trying to make sense of it, after reading this
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

The police are recording Males as "Women" not "Trans women", so they clearly don't give two shits about crime and demographic statistics.

@Happy101
It sounds as though the #Be Nice scales are dropping from your eyes. Gender critical feminists are constantly being portrayed as the powerful nasty oppressors of these poor poor men, backed up by their dodgy statistics and warped analysis of the past.
Thanks for posting on here and keep dipping in to learn more and see the bigger picture.

I have long suspected (but haven't researched as it would be too depressing), that the surprisingly high figures for domestic abuse amongst trans people, must include trans widows refusing to accept their husband's gender identity in the definition of "abuse".

@Thelnebriati

If you want a mixed sex service then all you need to do is make one. No one is stopping you. That article is one ling screed of victim blaming and could be used as a textbook example of DARVO. Anyone working in the women's sector needs to take the training they have received about abusive behaviour and apply it to themselves. There is no place in trauma recovery for support workers who mimic the behaviours of abusers.

This.

@TinselAngel

I have long suspected (but haven't researched as it would be too depressing), that the surprisingly high figures for domestic abuse amongst trans people, must include trans widows refusing to accept their husband's gender identity in the definition of "abuse".

This is the report: www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/lgbt_in_britain_home_and_communities.pdf

16% of the 750 trans participants reported domestic abuse, of which 51% said that "Their partner ridiculed their gender identity" and 14% said "Their partner stopped them from being able to express their gender identity".

That's definitely inappropriate. Deeply retraumatising and unsafe.
So I think the need for safe self contained housing for survivors fleeing violence is extremely important.

An important part of recovery from male violence & abuse for many women has been in a supportive all female space.
Self contained housing may not be the best option for many women.

For some reason I was subscribed to this shit rag. Not any more!

@TinselAngel

I have long suspected (but haven't researched as it would be too depressing), that the surprisingly high figures for domestic abuse amongst trans people, must include trans widows refusing to accept their husband's gender identity in the definition of "abuse".

The DV figures are already messed about with, even the ONS ones. Figures for female victims only include what we traditionally consider domestic violence (including intra-family dv).

For male victims only the figures also include violence from ex partners of current partners, or from current partners of ex partners which, when I looked at the figures 3 years ago, added another third on to the stats for male victims. Furthermore, the stats showed that familial violence (from children) was a much larger proportion of dv for adult male victims, whereas for adult female victims the majority was from current or ex partners.

16% of the 750 trans participants reported domestic abuse, of which 51% said that "Their partner ridiculed their gender identity" and 14% said "Their partner stopped them from being able to express their gender identity".

I wonder what constitutes "ridicule", and in any event, since when was it domestic abuse to tell your husband and the father of your children that he isn't a woman?

I'm reminded of the second rule of misogyny:

1. Women saying no to men is a hate crime

I am not surprised that the abuse figures that are reported are so high. However, I believe that if similar comparative questions were asked of women, the figure there would be very much higher than 7%. I would answer a comparative question with a yes but would not have considered myself as an abuse survivor. Maybe because I grew up in a house with DV. It is all a matter of perception I guess.

@R0wantrees

That's definitely inappropriate. Deeply retraumatising and unsafe. So I think the need for safe self contained housing for survivors fleeing violence is extremely important.

An important part of recovery from male violence & abuse for many women has been in a supportive all female space.
Self contained housing may not be the best option for many women.

I choose to stay with a violent man over traumatic shared housing, which is not necessarily a safe space. Women, even DV victims, can be bullies or even violent too.

Where does the idea that traumatised victims don't need private facilities come from? The victims, or academics or staff who don't have to experience shared housing? I accept some women might actively choose a room in a shared home, sharing bathroom and kitchen with strangers. But clearly it's not the preference of most. I see others writing about their concerns over it and demand for the limited number of self contained spaces is very high.

All female support can be provider through group meetings, communal spaces, and similar. That is quite different from where you live, sleep, wash, and eat - when you are at your most vulnerable.

I also stand by my belief that one size fits sll doesn't work. Just because I share a biological sex with someone doesn't mean we'll understand each other's experiences. More specialised services are needed. For disabled survivors, childless and/or older women (a group often not catered for in the standard all female spaces), trans survivors, and other groups who have different experiences.

My fear around shared housing space might be more extreme than many other women, but I know many (probably the majority) of refuge residents woujd prefer self contained, would feel safer and better able to recover.

I also stand by my belief that one size fits sll doesn't work

Absolutely agree.

"transphobia runs counter to the fight for all women’s rights"

Oh, so close, and yet so far.

@R0wantrees

I also stand by my belief that one size fits sll doesn't work

Absolutely agree.

This is very true for disabled women. For many people their abuser is their carer. Refuges are not set up for this and are not designed to be accessible. The model is that you live in a normal shared house and do your share of the work. To meet everyone’s needs some sort of specialist provision is needed. I have no idea if that actually exists.