Abigail Shrier appears on Joe Rogan

[Freespeecher]

She was on with Benjamin Boyce the other day (who I like but who doesn't have anything resembling the reach of Rogan) but this is much bigger.

Should help reach a lot of people with the message of her book.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=CtftWcgXjdg

I listened to this last night.

Felt there were a few things they were both skirting round some issues but I can't blame her for not mentioning some stuff tbh.

Overall I really liked her. She spoke alot of sense and it was really disturbing how people are trying to shut her down when talking about the mental health of teenage girls

What things did you think they were skirting around Sarah? I thought it was great. Measured and sensible; both so knowledgeable on the subject.

I felt that there perhaps should have been a mention that children in some cases are being targeted/used because people can't say no to kids so in order for some of less savoury characters that are piggy backing the movement have twigged that they can use kids to push through laws/policies that benefit the ones who are doing it as a fetish.

And I also felt they avoided asking the question , who it benefits when children are put on blockers as a result have very under developed bodies whilst being over the age of consent.

I think those are layers that not only add additional concern to whats happening to children, predominantly teen girls. It is also very damaging to the rest of the lgbt community who fought for years to be seen as regular people and these activists are damaging the cause.

There was the briefest of mentions about teenage girls thinking they are trans and going on various social media sites and being encouraged and praised by older trans women (i.e. males) and then being asked for pictures etc. Discussion very quickly moved on instead of exploring further the very obvious grooming going on in some online spaces.

She also mentioned Ray Blanchard in passing at one point and I was a bit surprised because if she has been reading on Ray Blanchard's work, then she can't have missed the topic of autogynephilia.

Having read her book on kindle - she does mention AGP in it. Not in great depth, but describes what it is and why the TRA lobby might not want it mentioned.

Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying that! I haven't read the book yet. Good to know she touches on the topic. What an eye opening journey that must have been for her as she carried out all the research for her book.

I'm irritated that they're repeating unquestionably the catechism that you can be born in the wrong body

I'm irritated that they're repeating unquestionably the catechism that you can be born in the wrong body

I'm guessing they are "picking their battles" I think perhaps they feel by extending understanding they won't be completely torn to shreds but yes it is frustrating because its false. No one is born in the wrong body. Male /female/black/white/tall/short/disabled etc you are just you. You are not wrong. You are perfect just the way you are or you wouldn't be you.

Abigail Shrier does criticise the female brain in the wrong body towards the end of the episode. I figured it was about picking battles as well and focusing on the issue with teen girls rather than get distracted onto another debate.

It got a lot better as it went on...almost switched off after the first 20m but glad I didn't

Yes Sarah I think you're right. Not much conversation around grooming via Reddit etc.

Someone I've been speaking to highlighted this as a movement to 'harvest young boys with vaginas'.

What has been happening with Peter Tatchell and his schools guidance recently, he advocating the Forgiveness Project, the MAP movement trying to piggy-back on to the LGBTQ+ lobbyists.. this needs exploring in more detail.

(Bindel? @Triggerpod?)

I just listened to this. It is really good.

Gets better and better.

I am so shocked that a girl at 15 in USA can just go to a doctors and get testosterone. Affirmative health care no need for any questions or care

Doctors not allowed to say no.

It’s really worth listening to.

What are we doing to children

I think she doesn't mention AGP or MtF boys or a load of other peripheral issues because the focus of her book and all her research is into adolescent girls' mental health. She made that pretty clear.

Yes but the agp is relevant to the grooming of teenage girls which is a part of the problem.

True. 🤢

I just listened to this. It was good, but I was a bit confused by the format. It seemed like Abigail Shrier has written a thorough and well-researched book but the host seemed to do most of the talking and to be telling her what the issues were....? Perhaps someone could fill me in on his background and usual style because I've not heard of him!

In some ways it was good that he seemed outraged by current events, because it's sounds like she's taken a lot of heat and it's good that someone else is expressing the outrage. I got the impression that his language was sometimes less measured than hers would have been.

I posted about this the other day. I thought it was good but Joe Rogan seemed a bit out of his depth at points, and kept derailing the discussion towards sports (which I guess is his thing). Still interesting to hear his perspective, but really wanted to hear Shrier talk more about the issues in her book. It wasn't clear to me that he'd read the book. Anyway, despite all that, she was great. I think Rogan has massive reach - something like 1.5m views already when I watched the other day.

sultanasofa he does very long, freeform interviews with guests and does get involved in the discussions. I think in this case he was not great at ceding the floor to Shrier but it isn't unusual for him to speak a lot with his guests. Some of his interviews are 3 hours long and more! He doesn't edit anything - they just talk and he uploads the conversations.

Abigail Shrier was also on Kellie-Jay Keen's channel recently - that was a great discussion.

OK - thanks very much queenofknives, that's useful. Sounds like he could be highlighting issues to an audience that wasn't previously aware of them - always good!