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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Guardian job cuts

405 replies

MummBraTheEverLeaking · 15/07/2020 15:11

twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283351434717782016?s=19

A lot comments standing up for women. What was that phrase again, go woke.....?

OP posts:
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16
Siablue · 16/07/2020 12:34

I feel so sad about the loss of the weekend and review. I loved Hadley’s column and all the recipes. It was the best bit of the paper.

The comment section is infuriating and the don’t allow comments on most of the articles. They are losing what made them special as a quality newspaper.

IveSeenThings · 16/07/2020 12:42

I cannot and will not give Murdoch a penny of mine, so no Times for me.
Another one who grew up with the guardian- think ive been reading it for 35 years. It is unreadable now though.

I love Hadley, and will also miss John Harris, Marina Hyde, Suzanne Moore.

PronounssheRa · 16/07/2020 12:45

mobile.twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283704333977223169

Ben now has a mansplaining thread where he calls women Cis

For the love of god, they are so fucking entrenched they double down on the very thing that is losing them readers.

Melroses · 16/07/2020 12:45

twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283704333977223169

As Suzanne More tweeted - Brace. Brace. A MAN has done a thread...

He has Laid Out His Beliefs

RIP Guardian.

sashagabadon · 16/07/2020 12:52

[quote nauticant]It wasn't just that they had some stupid articles but stupid people, they were clearly suppressing one POV, systematically

We all have our peak Guardian stories. This is mine:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/01/marie-dean-story-shows-there-s-no-simple-answer-how-we-treat-transgender[/quote]
yes this was mine too

If I remember correctly , this person broke into his neighbours home , a teen girl, and stole her underwear and yet the Guardian did not even think to mention this why they tried to persuade us all that they should be moved to a female prison. This story absolutely outraged me. It was such blatant dangerous propaganda.

IveSeenThings · 16/07/2020 13:03

Ironically, it has been the Guardian's First Dog On The Moon syndication that has cemented my anti-Murdoch stance!

SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 16/07/2020 13:07

That twitter thread from Ben is hilarious. And totally sums up why the guardian deserves to die.

Guardian: "Not enough people are buying our paper! Please give us money or we'll have to fold!"

Ex guardian readers x 1000: "We don't buy your paper anymore because you are massive misogynists who crap all over women"

Guardian: "No no, silly women! Here, read why you're completely wrong and clearly know nothing about your own rights and material reality. And then give me more money."

Wokey wankers go brokey brokey. Bye bye.

highame · 16/07/2020 13:10

🤣

Floisme · 16/07/2020 13:15

BBT to trans people: 'we want to tell your stories'.
BBT to women: 'Sorry you've gone.' (With a 'cis' for good measure.)

Every time he tweets, my heart hardens a little bit more.

RoyalCorgi · 16/07/2020 13:18

I just read Ben's thread. His tweet yesterday was the one that drew dozens of responses from women angry at being let down by the Guardian.

My main response is: wtf is wrong with these people? Why are they so stupid? He starts his argument with:

Trans women are women.
Trans men are men.
Non binary people are non binary.

How can you be so dim as to think that that constitutes a persuasive argument? It's as if I wanted to persuade people of the truth of Christianity, and began by saying: "Jesus is the son of God." It's putting the conclusion first, ahead of the actual argument. Not that Ben goes on to develop an argument.

It's so depressing when you see a journalist, someone whose entire job is to use words persuasively, start an argument with a thought-terminating cliche. He might just as well have started with "War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength."

After I read his series of tweets, I was even more pissed off than I was before, which I wouldn't have thought possible.

justanotherneighinparadise · 16/07/2020 13:28

It’s a mantra. If you state with a #nodebate statement you are trying to enshrine it into Twitter law, perhaps in the hope no one will argue the point thereafter.

Why do I keep seeing zero TRA responses in these massive GC threads? Where are they all?

PapsofJura · 16/07/2020 13:28

It’s a sad day when a paper in which used to represent my values is now in such a position.

We got a copy recently, substituted for our usual Times and I was shocked at what a rag it had become, it was awful.

What I like about the Times is the diversity in reporting and views, this makes it interesting and helps to cement/challenge my own views, something the Guardian was incapable of doing except to make me want to run around screaming I’m a woman no fucking cis about it!

As an aside, one columnist in the Times, sorry can’t remember who, said to women that if a leftie, woke man approaches you saying that they are your friend, to run for the hills as they are anything but. That’s basically what the Guardian has become.

SerenityNowwwww · 16/07/2020 13:32

Maybe the management will get Bens tweet engraved one a nice little tombstone award for his leaving do?

eurochick · 16/07/2020 13:36

That twitter thread is gold! It is so rare seeing anything go womens' way on twitter. I am really shocked.

RoyalCorgi · 16/07/2020 13:42

It’s a mantra.

It is indeed. I don't get it. The country churns out thousands of trained journalists every year. Some of them must be pretty good. They must be able to think critically, write engagingly, develop an argument. Why, given such a talent pool, is the Guardian employing morons?

testing987654321 · 16/07/2020 13:45

Just read this bit, he doesn't have the faintest clue how most women feel does he? How many women here "match" their gender role?

Most people's gender "matches" with the one conferred on them by biology and society. Mine does, and it's the same for millions more. A minority differ. We should be compassionate towards them.

TheRealMcKenna · 16/07/2020 13:53

Most people's gender "matches" with the one conferred on them by biology and society.

I am, from this point forward, going to always take the “James Lindsay” approach and throw the arguments straight back at them.

  1. How can ‘gender’ “match” biology when biological sex doesn’t exist?

Ben is transphobic.

  1. Biology is a construct of Whiteness.

Ben is an unashamed white supremacist.

Job done.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/07/2020 14:03

Oh, Ben.

To the cis women who feel betrayed by the Guardian's coverage of trans issues: I'm genuinely saddened to have lost you as everyone working here wants to fight misogyny, sexism and patriarchal power/bullshit.

No, Ben, you collectively clearly don't want to fight that stuff, or you wouldn't be calling us "cis" and wouldn't have run that bloody awful piece about Cologne.

There needs to be debate on how to ensure safety and agency of all women; of methods and timings of transitioning, which will vary for each person. But any debate needs to come from a place of compassion where the fact of trans women's existence and womanhood is honoured.

Perhaps you could stop trying to prevent debate from happening then? If women are involved we will be coming from a place of what our needs are and what's important to us. Ben cannot force us to come from any other position, nor should he be trying to do so. Which takes us back to his earlier point.

This debate should continue until everyone feels safe. People often approach it in bad faith. I encourage people to think openly. Talk to trans people and understand the reality of their identities; their difficulties and joys.

But you just said it couldn't even start until it promises not to center women. See how that's going to be a bit of a problem?

Siablue · 16/07/2020 14:03

What an absolute arse that Ben is. Incidentally I have never read anything he has written apart from those awful Twitter feeds and I never will again.

He clearly has pure contempt for the majority of his readers and that stuff on sexual violence is a load of crap too. Lots of the comments were about that awful Colone article.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 16/07/2020 14:04

Keep digging that hole Ben. Cis my arse.

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2020 14:17

When the left forget the principles of the left and when liberal forget the principle of liberalism, then they can't expect liberals and lefties to continue to support them.

Its that simple. The guardian represents the identity crisis of the left and of liberalism which no longer knows what it represents, what its underlying roots were and why it arose as a political force.

RoyalCorgi · 16/07/2020 14:19

On Twitter, the columnist Coco Khan has written:

"So the news is out. The Guardian Weekend is closing. I am obviously devastated, having been a weekly columnist for three years. I will forever be grateful to its editor @melissadenes who saw something in this poor lil brown girl from a council house, and made my dreams come true."

Nauseating self-pity aside, I would like to remind Coco that she signed that spiteful letter attacking Suzanne Moore, a columnist who is vastly more experienced, more intelligent, more thoughtful and more generous than she is.

You reap what you sow, Coco.

Aesopfable · 16/07/2020 14:20

‘ Cis’ relies on misogyny and sexist. You cannot call people ‘cis’ unless you are sexist. They are inseparable.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/07/2020 14:21

So this twit has tweeted to transwomen and ciswomen ... the majority of us who are just women have been ignored. What a surprise.

Oxyiz · 16/07/2020 14:22

Poor little Ben. Up until now in his life, all the women have given men like him lots of woke cookies. He's not like those other men you see, he understands misogyny and oppression. He nods along about microaggressions and believes fervently in all the isms. He'll blink very sadly and earnestly at you and give you a solemn lecture even as he wipes away all female rights without a second thought because you see, he's a NICE guy, not like those Others. He understands women better than silly women do!

Christ. I honestly prefer outright sexist old fashioned views to the modern Bens of the world.