Scared I will lose my best friend of many years ...

[Bobkitten]

I have for the first time stated I’m in agreement with J K Rowling and my best friend was, I think, quite shocked and responded with ‘trans women are women.’

We had a long calm discussion (not argument) in which I put forward my viewpoint and we agreed that I would send her a few links, so she can see for herself what I’ve been reading.

I’ve done this, but I got the sense she’s horrified and I feel really worried she will write me off as a ‘transphobe.’

Not much point in posting really, but feeling on the verge of tears right now (god knows how J K Rowling is feeling).

Hello. Pleased to have joined mumsnet. I have no children, I am in my 60s and am an old time second wave feminists. I'm feeling rather sad that so many young women don't seem to know what feminism is.

Welcome Trossochs.

I think I might have been inclined to go along with the 'be kind' crowd when I was a young woman. Who knows. I also found it hard to swallow bullshit without asking any questions, so that might have ultimately been my undoing. There are definitely quite a few young women who don't subscribe to the TWAW mantra, but they might understandably keep a low profile among their peers.

Hello@Trossochs: I joined recently too, am on a similar situation to you. I hope you find comfort and inspiration on this site. I have. So many well thought through points, it is an oasis of positivity for women, rare in these times.

OP I actually wasn't keen on the JKR 'wumben' tweet about periods either. I am worried about this tendency to drop the word woman from women's health, but when I saw that tweet I didn't much like it. Her essay is where it's at.

Has anyone tried this one with friends? It was one of the things that woke me up. Think through why some spaces (or other services) are female only. Why do we need them in the first place? Eg sport, a refuge or counselling following sexual assault, prison estate, being able to say you want a female to do intimate care. Then, trying to keep the perspective of the woman who needs that service to be female only, why does that no longer apply because of a male person's self perception? Bearing in mind that few tw have surgery & having medical intervention is not part of the definition of trans now anyway, why should the tw's self perception make things different for the woman?

Tw need those services too, but the question should be how do we meet both needs, not why doesn't the woman change her needs?

My 18 year old brother just said men can have periods to me on the phone. As if this is just a fact.

What did you say to him?

A) Are you drunk?
B) Are you on glue?
C) Are you having a laugh?

@doadeer

My 18 year old brother just said men can have periods to me on the phone. As if this is just a fact.

This is a sign of the destruction of language and through that, the understanding of reproductive biology.

By men your brother means men and transmen? Well, since transmen are women then sure, people who are women but call themselves men can have periods. Because they are women. This is just a fact.

We had a very heated debate about the erosion of "women" last time we met up. He doesn't understand that women are being removed from discussions he just thinks he is being inclusive. He comes from a good place, he's a good person, I just need to do a better job explaining why as a woman I don't agree with him.

Just tell him that he’s a man so doesn’t really have a right to debate the issue with women.

I get this. I have a friend, he’s really clever, a gay man. Always seemed to be pro woman. However we had to agree to disagree over the TWAW issue. But he now says he doesn’t agree with them in sports (?!) so they either are women or they aren’t.
It’s not that people don’t get it-it’s that they’ve become entrenched in a correct viewpoint and it takes time to find the courage to examine it

“Correct” I should say

That’s the sort of thing that drives me mad Siamesy

By saying not in sports, he’s saying he knows full well TW are not women, he 100% knows it’s a lie and irrespective of that, he’s happy to hand over women’s rights including the right to name ourselves women because bluntly it doesn’t affect him.

Yes exactly Kit-I do sometimes think that some children and teens actually believe TWAW but there is no way an adult in their 40s does. He is prepared to pretend to believe-maybe like some people only believe in Jesus at Christmas and Easter but in this case it’s for woke medals

The problem is, that most people imagine a harmless old-school 'trannie' when they think of a transwoman. I find it helps them to understand by showing them pictures of these people, with the question, "Are these people women? Would you be happy for them to share a changing room with your DDs?"

On the topic of losing friends, trans rights activists over on a Reddit are bizarrely sharing screenshots of women who have been ostracised for having gender critical views and are claiming that this shows that being gender critical is a cult! This doesn’t make sense because it is the group who is doing the ostracising who are showing cult behaviour, not the ones who have been ostracised. This reasoning would be like Scientologists saying suppressive persons who have been shunned are really the cultists! The projection is stunning.