If being trans is just like being gay....

[ThatsHowWeRowl]

Then how come there is such a distinct pattern between the sex of the transitioner and the stage of life at which they 'come out'?

I have noticed this recently but it hasn't really properly registered until now.

Almost all of the very young 'trans kids' seem to be male children who 'want to be girls'. There seems to be a lot of focus on sparkly dresses and long hair.

There then seem to be a lot of females wanting to transition during puberty with a 'rapid onset gender dysphoria' being present in females who had previously been happy in their bodies.

Then we have the 'late transitioners' group who seem to be made up exclusively of males transitioning well into adulthood, often approaching middle age. There don't appear to be any female late transitioners at all, I'm sure a few exist but this group is certainly dominated by males.

Gay and lesbian people who come out also come out at varying stages of life, but there isn't this pattern of gay males and females coming out at different life stages.

It seems to me that socialisation is a huge factor here?

[FloraFox]

Also, OP it's difficult to get a good assessment of the different motivations, especially from adults, as there is so much material available to coach people about what to say in GID assessments to get the outcome they want.

[ContentiousOne]

It's nothing like being gay.

Being a lesbian doesn't harm a woman's health, for one thing.

Your dad comes out as a lesbian? Congrats honey, and life goes on with zero psychological, medical or social intervention required.

[ContentiousOne]

Ha! Your dd, NOT your dad!

[MiladyRenata]

If your dad wants to be a lesbian, why not?

[ContentiousOne]

@MiladyRenata

If your dad wants to be a lesbian, why not?

Men can't be lesbians, don't be silly. Or, more to the point, don't be lesbophobic.
Lesbians are same sex attracted females.

[Datun]

@Antibles

It seems obvious to me that the strong social taboo on boys/men not wearing clothing associated with the female sex is the precise reason some of them develop a fetish about it.

I suspect the concept of trans would never have come about if women's clothing wasn't so verboten and loaded with the thrill of transgression. I mean if it wasn't at its heart about the clothes and the performance, why not just wear jeans and T-shirt and enjoy your ladybrain?

Grayson Perry said similar iirc. That he stopped, or limited, going out as 'Claire' because his fame promoted such acceptance, it was no longer sexually thrilling.

[ContentiousOne]

Why do men feel entitled to get their sexual kicks from non-consenting others in this way?

[Shmurf]

What has wearing dresses got to do with gender dysphoria? Dresses can be for girls or boys.

To be fair, only people on here seem to really believe that. Most people would regard a boy in a dress as a bit odd, for better or worse.

On another note, I was reading a dating profile today where a guy was claiming to be a lesbian trans girl. I couldn't help wonder at what point a male attracted to women decides that they're a lesbian? Obv people can identify as what they want but I was a little perplexed.

[ContentiousOne]

Boys and men in skirts every Sunday at the Pacific Islander Church round the corner from me.

I see boys and young men in skirts/tunics in very cool suburb not far from me.

Men in kilts doing yoga quite popular at the school gate here!

It's only Anglo and other conservative men that seem to have a problem with boys in skirts.

I don't know of any parents in my circle who'd have so much as blinked an eye about a young boy wearing dresses. It's play, isn't it?

[Shmurf]

Boys and men in skirts every Sunday at the Pacific Islander Church round the corner from me.

I see boys and young men in skirts/tunics in very cool suburb not far from me.

Men in kilts doing yoga quite popular at the school gate here!

It's only Anglo and other conservative men that seem to have a problem with boys in skirts.

I don't know of any parents in my circle who'd have so much as blinked an eye about a young boy wearing dresses. It's play, isn't it?

Not the same at all. Kilts are considered manly and I'd bet many kilt wearers wouldn't don a strapless evening dress. All the above cultural examples are considered normal in their environment.

I don't have an issue with it personally but let's not kid ourselves that the average lad who wears a dress to school won't get utterly terrorised. Most women don't really seem to understand male culture.

[ThatsHowWeRowl]

To be fair, only people on here seem to really believe that. Most people would regard a boy in a dress as a bit odd, for better or worse.

Yes I know, but that is because of social conditioning, not because dresses are innately and objectively only for girls.

[Goosefoot]

@Antibles

It seems obvious to me that the strong social taboo on boys/men not wearing clothing associated with the female sex is the precise reason some of them develop a fetish about it.

I suspect the concept of trans would never have come about if women's clothing wasn't so verboten and loaded with the thrill of transgression. I mean if it wasn't at its heart about the clothes and the performance, why not just wear jeans and T-shirt and enjoy your ladybrain?

I'm not so sure about this. People pin it on the clothing, but if men and women dressed more similarly, I think the focus would just be on something else.

[SapphosRock]

@OldCrone being transgender doesn't respond to psychiatric treatment. No amount of therapy or pills can 'cure' the gender dysphoria.

Other psychiatric problems such as body dysmorphia do respond to treatment.

[Juancornetto]

'As someone said on another thread, being trans is not at all like being gay because you can be sexually attracted to either sex (or both) but you can’t become someone of the opposite sex.'
A 2015 survey: "National Transgender Discrimination Survey: Full Report"
showed 60% of of the 3000 trans women surveyed were sexually attracted to women.

[highame]

@shmurf I don't have an issue with it personally but let's not kid ourselves that the average lad who wears a dress to school won't get utterly terrorised. Most women don't really seem to understand male culture.

Interesting a young lad at my DS school wears a dress. They had 'Stonewall' stuff. GS has been brought up to be tolerant and that's what he is however, he said that the Stonewall stuff put loads of them off. He said it was limited and that they didn't feel encouraged to ask questions. The young lad hadn't been bullied at all, the kids just thought it was odd and left it at that. They were more suspicious after the talk. That's strange. They are 14/15

[highame]

btw GS was very hesitant to talk about it, it wasn't until I talked about the conflicts with GDS and EA that he felt comfortable talking. I was really upset by this, because we are open in our discussions and it felt a bit sinister.

[MsJuniper]

This doesn't fit with my (limited) experience. Anecdata I know but I just wonder if that trend is more apparent in those who are represented in the media?

I know:

One pre-teen child MTF who wears their hair chin length and mostly baggy sports clothes with the occasional t shirt dress.

One young child (girl) who wears her hair very short and never wears dresses, wears the 'boy' uniform at school.

One adult MTF who wears skinny jeans and shirts with long hair. No or minimal makeup. Very unflamboyant.

[borntobequiet]

The false narrative that being trans is like being gay has been an important factor in regulatory capture and general shaping of the public perception of transition.
Just because someone believes something doesn’t make it so. In fact a belief in something that isn’t true is pretty much the definition of delusion.
I recently re-listened to a very good series of podcasts on the history of delusion. About 40 min in to the one linked below is an interesting discussion about the very wide prevalence of delusional beliefs in seemingly normal people (apparently they were once thought to be only associated with mental illness). It’s suggested that delusions are not always harmful and may indeed be a coping mechanism for some people.
I thought it relevant in this context.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0007lh6

[Fieldofgreycorn]

moving to a gender role that better suits my personality.

So the gender role of ‘woman’ has a particular personality?

[OldCrone]

[quote SapphosRock]@OldCrone being transgender doesn't respond to psychiatric treatment. No amount of therapy or pills can 'cure' the gender dysphoria.

Other psychiatric problems such as body dysmorphia do respond to treatment. [/quote]
Can you provide some links to this research @SapphosRock?

[OldCrone]

I don't have an issue with it personally but let's not kid ourselves that the average lad who wears a dress to school won't get utterly terrorised. Most women don't really seem to understand male culture.

I think women on this part of the site understand male attitudes very well. When you say 'terrorised' I assume the 'terrorising' is coming mainly from the other boys.

Like the anecdote someone told on here that when 'Dave' turned up at work one day in a dress and said he was now 'Davina', the men all told him he couldn't use the men's toilets and he should use the women's.

So we understand that many men have a problem with other men who don't conform to conventional standards of masculinity. I do wonder why this is. I assume it's to do with their own insecurity and wanting to prove that they are 'real men' or something.

[RedToothBrush]

@MiladyRenata

If your dad wants to be a lesbian, why not?

I don't even know where to start with this sexist homophobic tripe.

[mummmy2017]

So all the men refuse to let a dress into the men's, but feel the females can't refuse to have a penis enter their toilets.
So it's ok to stop men feeling uncomfortable, and MAKE the ladies suffer instead.

[OldCrone]

@mummmy2017

So all the men refuse to let a dress into the men's, but feel the females can't refuse to have a penis enter their toilets.
So it's ok to stop men feeling uncomfortable, and MAKE the ladies suffer instead.

That's how it seems. Many men seem to be stuck at the juvenile stage of 'a man in a dress is no longer a real man, therefore he's a woman'. I think that's largely why we've arrived where we are now.

[mummmy2017]

We were talking about this the other day.
If Martians turns up on Earth.
They are unisex, Have boobs , penis and vagina, so everyone can all have babies.
The only thing that differs is they have green skin.
So if an Earth male had surgery to look like a Martian, and got a spray tan to green, could they ever be a Martian.
Or are they simply an Earth man presenting as a Martian.