Flora Gill - annoying article in The Times

[Theluggage15]

Article on cancel culture. Read the first bit then there was this paragraph:

‘ For example, for my generation — I’m 29 — the right of trans people to be protected is as indisputable as the right to sexual or racial equality. If you’re focusing only on the tiny number of women who could be at threat from men pretending to be trans, instead of the real threat faced by trans women now, then you’re not fighting for women — you’re fighting against a type of woman you don’t value.’

Want to go to sleep but feeling really angry. So depressing reading this, I feel worse for some reason when this sort of view comes from intelligent young women.

It’s because it makes the future feel difficult because she is supposedly the voice of the future generation = legislation.
But, truth will out. She’ll find out soon enough that women are much more at risk than she thinks, she will have to watch every word, pick up every stitch or she’ll be cancelled herself. Create the rules, play the game.

I'd love these writers to really lay it out, instead of just hand wringing.

What issues exactly do transwomen face? I do hear lots of allusion to risk of suicide and violence but it would be great to see proper research into how it actually manifests. Causes, effects, different ideas as to how to reduce harm - theres probably not a magic bullet that will solve all transpeoples problems at a stroke. Twaw and budge up ladies isnt informative.

Maybe a break it down for me type thread from a trans organisation would be good.

Sigh, more nepotism. It doesn't help the standard of thinking and journalism to have inherited seats in newspapers.

I'm confused by what she means 'the real threat faced by trans people now'.At the moment in the UK, things are pretty good for trans people. They are specifically protected by the Equality Act. They cannot be fired for being trans. The number of trans people murdered in the UK each year is thankfully incredibly low. There is no evidence that the lack of self ID law is a threat to trans people. This article is depressing because for once the interests of women are acknowledged - only to be dismissed.

All generations have the same rights and they were achieved when she was still at a posh school somewhere. This assumption that younger people are more moral than any other is really ageist and elitist. That's okay though I suppose.

@irishfeminist

Sigh, more nepotism. It doesn't help the standard of thinking and journalism to have inherited seats in newspapers.

Yes, I quite agree.

@irishfeminist

Sigh, more nepotism. It doesn't help the standard of thinking and journalism to have inherited seats in newspapers.

100 x this.

the right of trans people to be protected is as indisputable as the right to sexual or racial equality

Protected isn’t what we’re objecting too, is it? We’re objecting to men being given women’s rights.

And yes to the nepotism.

I don’t believe the majority of young people are actually behind the current activism. Suspect there’s a lot of eye-rolling at the level of complaints created by a tiny minority, but it’s probably seen as more of an annoyance than sinister if you’re at university and don’t follow what’s happening to vulnerable women.

This kind of thing reminds me of the article in the Tab where a transactivist was shocked to discover the majority of students at freshers’ week at Edinburgh University were not in favour of the pronoun badges that had been lovingly provided for them...

I suppose it sums up what the thought process is of young women who support the trans agenda.

This is why the T has to be decoupled from the LGB and exposed for the cuckoo in the nest that it is.

Annoying it's the Times. I thought that paper had a good grasp of the issues.

I missed the story about pronoun badges at Freshers Week!

It feels like quite a mistake by this woman to put out this piece in a paper that published Janice Turner's piece yesterday. Janice's piece already addresses all her points and exposes this for the self-righteous drivel it is.

Given the magazine has a huge article about detransitioners plus there’s a bit piece about cancel culture, it feels that they’ve put in her piece as a token ‘we do allow the other side’ plus it’s so vacuous & handwringing she just looks rather stupid

Big not bit

Annoying it's the Times. I thought that paper had a good grasp of the issues
I think it does, on Times Radio too, as already said, Times likes to give both sides

These people are so stuck in their echo chambers. Hello Flora if you ever read this - I'm from your generation and I disagree with you. So do all of my friends. We didn't grow up in nicely protected, private school bubbles so we see the world differently.

I have family members who have been in a women's prison and used domestic violence shelters so yes I am focusing on these women. What kind of feminist tries to take away the rights of "tiny number of women" (also known as the most vulnerable women in society)? Shame on you.

you’re fighting against a type of woman you don’t value

No, love, that would be you, fighting against those women who you don't value (the ones over 30).

@WeeBisom

I'm confused by what she means 'the real threat faced by trans people now'.At the moment in the UK, things are pretty good for trans people. They are specifically protected by the Equality Act. They cannot be fired for being trans. The number of trans people murdered in the UK each year is thankfully incredibly low. There is no evidence that the lack of self ID law is a threat to trans people. This article is depressing because for once the interests of women are acknowledged - only to be dismissed.

Absolutely and actually trans people have greater protection under the law because they have specific protections against hate speech whereas hate speech against women wasn’t included - a bit of an oversight?

I don't know why she bothered to mention her age. I'm 31, so the same generation, and disagree with her wholeheartedly. My guess is she doesn't have children, as unfortunately (and this is a sweeping statement) from what I've observed, it tends to be people without the realisation of the impact on children that are happy to chant the TWAW mantra.

Take no notice of her. She didn’t earn her job. Maybe we should “cancel” all the off-spring of famous parents who have waltzed into journalism, acting, modelling, TV presenting, singing. They’re not relevant and we really do need some fresh talent, not repetition.

Its nonsense, but I think it is important for it to be in the times, I dont want no debate, that's not my rallying cry.

@Collidascope

It feels like quite a mistake by this woman to put out this piece in a paper that published Janice Turner's piece yesterday. Janice's piece already addresses all her points and exposes this for the self-righteous drivel it is.

While I agree the piece is drivel, actually I am 100% behind the Times for publishing it.

This is what the opposite of cancel culture looks like. People get a chance to say what their beliefs are and attempt to back those beliefs up with arguments as to why they're right.

If the whole pack of cards comes tumbling down around their ears when they try this because it turns out their unthinking adherence to an ideology had no reasoned arguments behind it, well, meh! That's the best you've got? Bring it on.

That's precisely how an open society is meant to function.

The comments on these articles are better the article!

Cheap shot comparing men's rights with discrimination based on sexuality and race. Offensive to people in those groups.

At 29 the writer should be old enough to know better, but sounds so green still.

Sigh, more nepotism

Are you referring to her dad being the late AA Gill, or her mum being former Women and Equalities Minister and Home Secretary Amber Rudd?

And offensive to refer to a 'tiny group of women'

How do they conclude this?

Even if that were the case (and sadly, we know this isn't the case) tell that to the victims of Karen White. You were just casualties of a tiny proportion.
Tell that to the little girl raped and tortured by David Challenor while he dressed as a little girl.
Tell that to the sisters in the Morrisons toilets.

In fact, just visit the 'it never happens' resource thread for the disturbing truth.