Flora Gill - annoying article in The Times

[Theluggage15]

Article on cancel culture. Read the first bit then there was this paragraph:

‘ For example, for my generation — I’m 29 — the right of trans people to be protected is as indisputable as the right to sexual or racial equality. If you’re focusing only on the tiny number of women who could be at threat from men pretending to be trans, instead of the real threat faced by trans women now, then you’re not fighting for women — you’re fighting against a type of woman you don’t value.’

Want to go to sleep but feeling really angry. So depressing reading this, I feel worse for some reason when this sort of view comes from intelligent young women.

Wow, I don't really have the words for that. I know she's deleted and seemingly regrets it, but by god, you have to be staggeringly ignorant and privileged for like that to even occur to you, never mind posting it on twitter as some kind of hot take.

I've never seen someone meet the consequences of advocating for cancel culture quite so quickly

She just screams privilege. No understanding of so many people's reality. I feel sorry for her in a way - all that expensive education and no sense at all of what many people contend with. I'm sure she means well which makes it worse.

Wow, I don't really have the words for that. I know she's deleted and seemingly regrets it, but by god, you have to be staggeringly ignorant and privileged for like that to even occur to you, never mind posting it on twitter as some kind of hot take

I assume she was swinging for a slightly humorous take, but missed and fell flat on her face. It was too wokely earnest for that.

@WeeBisom

I'm confused by what she means 'the real threat faced by trans people now'.At the moment in the UK, things are pretty good for trans people. They are specifically protected by the Equality Act. They cannot be fired for being trans. The number of trans people murdered in the UK each year is thankfully incredibly low. There is no evidence that the lack of self ID law is a threat to trans people. This article is depressing because for once the interests of women are acknowledged - only to be dismissed.

This is rather startlingly naive. Since when did the Equality Act offer real protection against day to day persecution and discrimination? We know as women that there is still plenty of sex-based discrimination, and people from all the other minorities supposedly protected would tell you the same. Murders of trans people may be low, but attacks on them are not.

We don't do ourselves any favours by denying reality.

I agree with Flora on every opinion she has voiced so far, except the porn for kids website idea. Perhaps instead of encouraging companies to make porn for children, parents could for once educate their kids on consent, sex, genitals, gender, etc. Not difficult and will do much less harm than pretending all porn and sex is vanilla and child friendly.

I have never before felt so strongly that her generation are fucking clueless

@RaindropsOnRosie

I agree with Flora on every opinion she has voiced so far, except the porn for kids website idea. Perhaps instead of encouraging companies to make porn for children, parents could for once educate their kids on consent, sex, genitals, gender, etc. Not difficult and will do much less harm than pretending all porn and sex is vanilla and child friendly.

I don't think you'll find it's parents advocating for porn for children, that'll be your woke mate Flora. Parents do their best under an increasing tide of woke bollocks like this!

I think the most telling part is her calling her idea 'entry level' porn for children. The idea that they will level up to the throttling and slapping is baked into her take. And she just thinks it was clumsily worded, and is spinning in the wind trying to caveat her way out of advocating helping children step into the world of pornography as an 'education'.

These people are utterly pernicious. So depressed that 'sex-positive' is just a quagmire of naivete and noncery. I'll be fascinated to see how the apologists twist out of this. There are screenshots, so I guess they're going to go for the 'misspoke' thing before edging back towards getting cock front and centre for kiddies just like before with the WiSpa thing.

This is how boundaries are chipped away at - push and push at the Overton window. She's clearly entitled and foolish. But useful idiots have always been part and parcel of wicked things, as we often see on FWR.

'I agree with Flora on every opinion she has voiced so far, except the porn for kids website idea.'

What every opinion she's ever expressed? Wow. You're a serious fan'

' Perhaps instead of encouraging companies to make porn for children, parents could for once educate their kids on consent, sex, genitals, gender, etc. '

You think parents are pushing for companies to make porn for children? Where on earth did you hear that?

'Not difficult and will do much less harm than pretending all porn and sex is vanilla and child friendly.'

You think it's not difficult to somehow ensure that every parent in the world does this? I'd say that's really bloody difficult.
How would you tackle getting parents who are in certain religious communities, for example, to do it? Interested to hear how you would approach it.

Pretending all porn is 'vanilla' and child friendly? Can you explain this comment please. You think that parents (all of them?) pretend porn is child friendly?! Where did you learn that? It's counter intuitive to say the least so interested to know why you believe that and what info you've seen to support it.

@NiceGerbil

'apropos of nothing I really think if someone quickly deletes a tweet, it shouldn't be screenshotted and shared like... just let it die, you know? no? no one else agree?'

Yes, must be really fucking annoying to be caught out promoting porn for children and then have people with the evidence of your words hold your foolish feet to the fire.

For the avoidance of doubt - if you show porn to kids, you're a criminal. HTH.

@ScreamingMeMe

I've never seen someone meet the consequences of advocating for cancel culture quite so quickly

Life comes at you fast, eh?!

I don't understand why the usual Twitter approach to saying something really stupid on Twitter, from so many people and orgs.

Is to delete it and think phew got out of that!

When obviously people will have read it etc. It seems so very silly.

The correct response is surely along the lines of
Omg sorry I read it back I don't know what I was thinking/ I was drunk/etc. Obviously it's ridiculous and I can only apologise. Of course I don't think xyz.

The delete thing is like a kid saying wasn't me and hiding. It's so. Lacking in integrity and makes them look ridiculous.

@RaindropsOnRosie

I agree with Flora on every opinion she has voiced so far, except the porn for kids website idea. Perhaps instead of encouraging companies to make porn for children, parents could for once educate their kids on consent, sex, genitals, gender, etc. Not difficult and will do much less harm than pretending all porn and sex is vanilla and child friendly.

Whenever I see the term 'vanilla', particularly when used in the context of sex education for minors, my spidery senses always start a-tingling......

She's said this now.

@FloraEGill

I think it's very hard to keep teens away from porn. Most 14/15 year olds understand computers far better than their parents and will easily work a VPN

Setting aside the porn issue I'm agog at the stupid age comment. Most parents of 14/15 year olds are 35 to 50 and have had access to computers for longer than their kids have been alive. Some of them have even worked in IT for decades Flora. Some of them invented the stuff Flora.

She really does believe anyone over 30 is a medieval relic.

do much less harm than pretending all porn and sex is vanilla and child friendly.

And let's enjoy this particular tone deaf comment that clearly indicates there is some porn and sex which is child friendly.

Well indeed.

And I suppose there's a suggestion there that teaching children that the sort of sex that most people have, in setups with 2 people involved, usually who they have some kind of existing relationship with...

Is somehow lacking? And they should be informed about the smorgasbord of options. 1 woman loads of men. Throttling. Being slapped and spat on. Acts which are more advanced as it were being standard. Genres like incest porn. Barely legal. And on and on and on.

Certainly the good news is that plenty of educational sources take this line. So that's brilliant!

The idea that the problem of children viewing porn online, especially given the fact that most of het porn is what would have been extreme or niche say 35 years ago. And the constant theme of male sexual domination over women.

Is offering them a sort of porn lite option.

Is just mind numbingly stupid. For so many reasons.

The idea that to combat the issue of children watching porn, more porn should be made.

Do these people all have shares in these sites or something?

No, no, Gill wasn't saying the children should watch the nasty stuff yet. She just thought some nice, basic sex where the porn performers act out a little consent play before intercourse would be just the job, maybe a special website just for kids would be a great education.

And when she realized people weren't patting her on the back for her idea, she doubled down a bit to try and clarify she meant 14 year old up, and when that didn't fly deleted the tweet and whined about people still responding. Some of whom were possibily among the 22 who liked it before she deleted it and are still promoting the idea as kids'll watch porn anyway, so if we regulate it and give them their own special genre, that won't be a problem or something.

The stupid porn thing though follows the logic that's fairly common, but by no means ubiquitous, around teens - if they are going to do X anyway, it's obviously hopeless to try and stop it, so we should make it somehow safe for them. Those who hope to actually stop x, or at least make it clear to the teens that they very much disapprove of x, are just naive. And often the implication that they are going to get what they deserve when they try and restrict their on teens behaviour and maybe then they will see the error of their ways.

I sometimes think this is now the operating principle of sex education in our society, be it anal sex, watching porn, having sex at home in their rooms, whatever. They will do it anyway so you might as well let them do it at home and give them a few pointers.

This Twitter woman obviously hasn't heard of bish. They are right up her Street. Maybe someone should flag them for her?

Great content aimed at 14+ but obv anyone can read.

'Painful sex is something that a lot of readers contact me about. Usually from young women with vaginas in pain after trying penis in vagina sex. So that’s what this is about. I’ll tell you the causes of why sex can be painful which should give you some advice about having sex without pain. A lot of this may also be true for painful anal sex.'

My go to thoughts for a 14 yo girl having painful sex would be more like-

You don't have to have that type of sex
Who is your partner how old are they
Do they ever pressure coerce etc
Are you using contraception
Pain can mean you're not aroused or he is not interested in your pain pleasure etc
Where are you having sex. His place? Etc
How does he treat you generally
Etc

And anal? 14yo+ girls? Might hurt?! Well. Yeah. You need to understand how to try and make it hurt less. Yay!

People have a pop at Giles Coren but I think her career is a far worse example of nepotism. Without her parents' names she wouldn't get a column in a local paper. It makes me really angry to think of all the talented young women she must have leap-frogged.

Can't we have a pop at both of them?

if they are going to do X anyway, it's obviously hopeless to try and stop it, so we should make it somehow safe for them

The young ideological activists absolutely love the argument that if a safeguarding measure isn't 100% effective in all circumstances then you might as well bin it. They often return to it whatever the subject.

Still, Flora has got Amber Rudd trending on twitter and that's drawing in even more people to witness this current display of witlessness.