Parents throw second gender reveal party for transgender child

[EdgeOfACoin]

Apologies if there has been a post about this already - I didn't see one.

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/07/11/mum-throws-second-gender-reveal-party-six-year-old-transgender-daughter-12976619/amp/

In a nutshell: little boy likes playing with stereotypical girls' toys. Ergo, boy is girl.

The ‘Christian’/ ‘right-wing’ thing is very specifically US based. And Canadian.
Interestingly though, the minute you open your mouth as GC in North America, it is assumed you are from a conservative Christian community. It’s usually churches and representatives who are pushing back against trans ideology in education, for example. Because anyone else won’t dare to. That’s where the Posie Parker is in league with right wing fundamental Christian blah blah nonsense came from. Because no one else is allowed to believe in biology. Because gender ideology and sexuality is part of the newer curriculums, anyone who speaks out about gender ideology is assumed to also be anti-gay (and tbf, most of them are, which is why it’s so problematic to include the T in a list if sexualities.)
Ergo, if you believe in biology, you must also be homophobic. It makes it very easy to dismiss anyone GC as a religious crank not worthy of listening to.
It’s a very North American assumption and doesn’t really translate to Britain.
I bloody hate it.
The only ones targeting school boards about gender teachings genuinely DO have a problem with same sex relationships.

This makes me sick to my stomach.

What is more, most Christians who are aware of what’s happening are growing increasingly concerned at the erasure of woman and women’s rights.

I'm really pleased to hear this. Please can you encourage your community to speak up. We need more voices to be heard.

The Christian/right wing thing is very US based. In the UK it's left wing Christians and other religious minded people who are eagerly embracing this. See the Ozanne foundation, Steve Chalke's Oasis organization etc. Very liberal minded, and totally all about the transing. Not even the slightest bit of self awareness about how conservative trans ideology is. To the point where they actually recently released a statement condemning the use of the phrase 'trans ideology', but haven't a word to say about regressive stereotypes or the issues around LGB people.

It's not mainly the US. It's here too.

I used to play with a lot of boys toys, wear my brothers hand me downs, me and my best friend (before we understood the concept of marriage fully) used to say we would get married, and I would be the man. Not sure why really, but at the time it wasn't anything to do with actual attraction, but a straight forward, you're my favourite person I'd like to spend forever with you as best friends- we grew out of that once we understood what it actually was. But it terrifies me now that some would be keen to convince me that I should be a boy. Why not just push for things to not be for boys and for girls. I also wonder about having 2 sons and they wanted a daughter, other than a fleeting 'anything is possible' toddler and young childness fleeting comment, there must have been some sway or validation from somewhere.

DS (3) has asked to grow his hair long, like mine. Didn’t realise this made him a girl 🤷🏻‍♀️

At the last election I completed an extensive “who do I vote for?” questionnaire and it came out 25% Tory, 25% Labour, 25%Lib Dem and 25% Green.

@BeeBeep same here. All my friends were boys at primary school and I wanted a train set for my 5th birthday.
I loved meccano, Lego and how things worked. Still do Mum said she would have been worried had I been growing up today.

Anyone who has ‘gender-reveal parties’ shows just how important gender is To them as a label, before the child is even here.
They’re one of the things in my list of things we've inherited from the US that should be done away with (along with high school proms and Trick or treating)

floralbunting

That's interesting! I have very little time for Steve Chalke as it is - I didn't realise that transing children was something he was on board with. Depressing.

@siblingrevelryagain

Anyone who has ‘gender-reveal parties’ shows just how important gender is To them as a label, before the child is even here. They’re one of the things in my list of things we've inherited from the US that should be done away with (along with high school proms and Trick or treating)

And baby showers.

I loathe baby showers with a passion.

(I realise this may not be a view universally shared on Mumsnet.)

My little boy thought at a point that when he grew up, he would become a woman, like me. He also wanted the very same dress I had. As a scientist who at the same time had blindly accepted the prevailing narrative (you can be what you want...), I was really torn.
I decided (hesitantly) to tell him that he would always have his male body, penis and all, but that shouldn’t limit him in how to dress or anything, those were just silly arbitrary rules.
I felt awful ,shattering his dreams‘ like that. Turned out it wasn‘t a big deal for him at all. The thing was settled for him and he didn’t even care for some dress going forward.
I guess, what I am saying is that (while I am not disputing that gender dysphoria in kids does happen and sure is difficult to navigate) the current culture encourages parents to overinterpret their kids‘ utterances which may lead to parents unnecessarily confusing their kids and sending them on wild goose chases. I know I almost did. And I feel quite silly for it in hind sight.

When she began talking and expressing herself, I realised there was more to it. She would talk about wanting hair as long as mine and wanting to wear the same clothes as me

This is about as believable as a two year old Jazz Jennings supposedly saying "I want a vagina." These are not things that toddlers come out with.

I don’t know about how normal it is for toddlers to say things like that, but when one of my DS’s was a similar age and I was pregnant with his younger sibling, he said that he was a girl and that when he grew up he wanted to have a baby in his tummy like I did and be a mummy.

He went off the idea of being a girl after I told him that, while he could be a daddy, someone born a boy can never grow a baby in their tummy. I just took it all as him wanting to copy me rather than a declaration of trans-ness.

I also had a little train instead of a little boy for a while.

MinorArcana yes, I think it is about ‚trying to copy‘ at that age. That is very much how my son‘s inquest felt like. But these days the ‚woke‘ fraction (I considered myself part of at one point) will shout you down for murdering his soul for telling him the obvious.

My son is 6 and enjoys having his nails painted, sometimes wears his sister’s hair clips, and loves a bit of pink. He also loves smart shirts, trains, and Captain Underpants. He chooses colourful outfits and I am actually very proud that he knows that anyone can wear/play with everything, and that nothing is ‘for boys’ or ‘for ‘girls’. (My 3yo DD is the opposite for some reason and always picks pink because it’s ‘for girls’, the conditioning seems to have hit her harder).

It’s only occurred to me recently that some
people would see DS’ fondness for colourful fingernails as something more than just that. Eye opening.

Why do they have to make such a big deal of it - it’s blatant attention seeking from the parents. Talking about their children to the media. Making it so much harder for the child if it turns out that they are perfectly fine with being a boy. And why are these children always super feminine ( and often sexualised- weird hand on - hip pose). They are never a ‘girl’ who likes football or a ‘girl’ who wears jeans and a t-shirt and wants to get muddy. It’s like being what we used to call ‘camp’ is the worst thing ever.

At that age children love make believe. My ds for example is 6, up until he was 4 he fully believed he would be able to be a police motorcycle when he grew up! These days he’s changed his mind to being a policeman.

Anyone with small children knows how weird conversations can get because of their imagination, most sensible people understand that this is them attempting to figure out the world and don’t take what they say as literal truth.

My 4 year old totally understands this.

Me: DD, can boys wear dresses?

DD: Yes, if they want to.

Me: If they wear a dress, does that make them a girl?

DD: No.

Me: Why not?

DD: Girls have vaginas!

Me: Should we tease a boy who wants to wear a dress?

DD: No! We should be kind. He can wear what he wants!

If 4 year olds can get it, I don't see why so many adults can't.

(She did demand a penis aged two but thankfully seems to have passed. To be fair I'd quite like one as weeing standing up looks fun.)

The Christian/right wing thing is very US based. In the UK it's left wing Christians and other religious minded people who are eagerly embracing this.

This is true. And each for very different reasons.

One of my 4 year olds little friends has been dressing as a 'girl' for the best part of a year with my daughter casually mentioning it now and then... 'F wore a tinker bell dress to nursery today' ect..

Well she came home on Friday to tell me 'f' doesn't want to wear dresses anymore and he's had a haircut. I know his parents and they've let him dress and Express himself how he wants but have always maintained he was a boy.....this is how you do it! I cant imagine if once he started asking for long hair and dresses they then for that point determined he was a girl, how do you do that to your child.

@teenmumandsowhat your childs vehicle aspirations were higher than mine, my DD wanted to be an ice cream van.

@LouHotel my ds is obsessed with anything with a wheel on tbh, but apparently police vehicles are the best because of the sirens!

Although yesterday even his beloved police vehicles were abandoned as he received a Tesco’s delivery van toy - complete with green crates and all and it can move forwards or backwards by itself and make a doorbell noise! Wouldn’t be surprised if he decided his back-up profession is a Tesco’s delivery driver

LittleEntrepreneur
Also I wonder if they’re Christians. That is often a factor in these cases, according to the whistle blower at the Tavistock. Some parents would rather their DC was trans and put it through all that medication and surgery and unknown future, than admit they have a gay child.

I’ve just watched that Tavistock segment on the Newsnight programme. They didn’t mention Christians or any religious faith at all. They mentioned homophobia a number of times but didn’t even allude to any kind of faith or background being the basis for the homophobia. You heard homophobia and in your mind that means Christians. Maybe have a think about why that is.

The kind of Christians who have issues with homosexuality are not the kind to see transgender ideology as a solution. They believe God is infallible and knows us better than we know ourselves, even down to the number of hairs on our heads. How, therefore, could God give a transperson the wrong body? Individual Christians may read the Bible in a way that supports their own decision to transition/transition their children but they would have to contort mainstream Christian beliefs to get there. Straightforward reading of the Bible doesn’t support transgender ideology.

LouHotel it seems quite a typical trajectory: thinking that their sex is not fixed at 2-3 years, followed by a phase where they observe gender stereotypes to a ridiculous degree at 4-5, which then relaxes again at about 6. (At least many parents in my circle had a similar experience.)

When I was 15/16/17, I had a 'skinhead' haircut. I wore boys clothes and DM's and adopted the nickname 'Spanner'. I smoked roll-ups and drank pints of beer, I swore and was generally a geezer type of person. I identified more with blokes and didn't really have any female friends.

Nowadays, I am about as far from 'Spanner' as you could imagine. I am very feminine, I have hair extensions and eyelash extensions and my favourite colour is pink. Somebody once referred to me as 'the most feminine person in the house' when I was in a house-share.

Young people do go through phases, it's normal. If 'Spanner' was my reality now, I dread to think what would have happened. I love being a woman, I am a mum and happy with my femininity and my sexuality. The idea that this could all have been taken away from me is absolutely terrifying.

PS: The only thing remaining from my Spanner days is that I still swear like a trooper, although I blame Mumsnet for that .