'Like adoptive parents, who want to be accepted as being the same as biological parents'

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Trans women are like adoptive parents, who want to be accepted as being the same as biological parents. And they are accepted as such, despite the differences in how they became parents in the first place; and if society could do the same for trans women, we’d be in a better place.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/11/uks-only-trans-philosophy-professor-to-jk-rowling-harry-potter-helped-me-become-a-woman

I'd be interested in the reaction of adoptive parents or children to that analogy. It doesn't work for me.

kids who are told early and have their love and trust affirmed by parents thrive

I think the problem was that many kids don’t thrive, even though adoptive parents do all the Best Practice things. (which yes, in the UK too would involve making sure they understood their life story.)

A bit off topic, but this bit of the article is really odd:

"For many years, says Chappell, she buried her worries over her transgender feelings, but gradually they surfaced. Among other triggers was Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone: “The mirror of Erised … struck me as a really heartbreaking image for my own condition,” she wrote in her letter to Rowling. “If I looked in the magic mirror and saw myself exactly as I most long to be, what would I see?”

The answer, she goes on, is “a woman, of course”. Which is why she was shocked at Rowling’s recent essay saying trans activism was dangerous to cis women."

The whole point of the mirror of Erised is that it is a trap. It doesn't show you what you need, it prevents you living your life.

"Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad"

Hmm two major differences are (1) adoptive parents would never try to gaslight anyone by saying that they are biological parents; and (2) if you point out that there is a difference between adoptive parents and biological parents, adoptive parents don't en masse attack you with death threats, rape threats, unwanted photos of penises, porn, photos of baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire and 'choke on my dick' messages.

@WeeBisom

This analogy isn't accurate. It's more like, imagine there is a group of 'trans parents' who don't have kids but demand to be called parents anyway. They get nursery places and child tax credits - despite not having a kid. If you point out they aren't really parents because they don't have children, you are called a raging bigot and are cancelled with shrieks of 'trans parents are parents!' Trans parents claim that it's not essential to have children to be a parent - in fact, being a parent is all about feelings and self identification. If you feel like a parent you just are a parent.

Then over time the trans parents get upset with parents who have children (sorry, 'cis' parents).The cis parents keep on talking about childbirth, and pregnancy, and child care, and keep on posting pictures of their kids online. This is very triggering to trans parents, so the other parents are encouraged to change their language. Indeed, the Mumsnet logo is deeply upsetting so it is edited to remove the children - after all, it is wrong to assume that parents must have children!

Excellent! Love this.

As excellent as WeeBisom’s analogy is- the reality is so grim that I don’t know if it can even be made to fit into it, such as:

-‘Cotton ceiling’ creepy male encroachment into same-sex attraction between women by recasting lesbians as ‘transphobic’ unless they will have sex with women who possess lady dicks
-Self identified women sexually abusing natal female prisoners in women’s prisons
-children and young people being encouraged online into permanent irreversible changes, NHS fulfilling these requests without lengthy counselling, fully informed consent or proper follow up
-women’s sports comps being won by self identified women competing in categories for women
-women’s awards and opportunities- even ones established to address sex disparities, like ‘Women’s Officer’, being open to all who identify as women

• climate of fear where women lose out on work (Maya Forstater case) if they question or disagree
• Girl guiding UK effectively becoming ‘Femininity Guiding UK’ by letting in boys who identify as girls and managing out any guides who identify as boys
• constant threats on women who speak out, such that freedom of speech is effectively only open to men - JKR, any woman who is on Twitter and comments on this ever

-detransitioned people being castigated instead of supported

I really wish some TRAs would read this. Sadly its too full of common sense

I'm sorry, but I think you're all missing the point.

This is not a genuine attempt to make an analogy with adoptive parents, it's a pitch to be be able to usurp trans widow's status as the only mother of their child.

This is not a genuine attempt to make an analogy with adoptive parents, it's a pitch to be be able to usurp trans widow's status as the only mother of their child.

What a grim possibility Tinsel. This would not be putting the needs of the child first either - unlike adoptive parents. It is not healthy for children to be forced to lie and to deny their own reality in order to prop up the identity of an adult.

Compare it to this, from France:

www.womenarehuman.com/man-scores-win-in-legal-fight-to-be-recognized-as-mother-on-his-childs-birth-certificate/

I appreciate the conversation has moved on a bit but just in relation to the 'legal fiction' bit above. I can see why people find it offensive as of course adoptive parents are parents. The legal fiction bit is quite specific (or at least that's how I've always seen it) to this bit of the law www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/38/section/67:

"An adopted person is to be treated in law as if born as the child of the adopters or adopter."

That bit is the legal fiction as of course it is not true but has useful practical consequences e.g. in relation to nationality or intestacy laws. It does not, however, obliterate the biological reality e.g. the laws on incest still recognise your original blood relationships even if your legal relationship has ended through adoption.

“ An adopted person is to be treated in law as if born
as the child of the adopters or adopter."

Saying that someone is to be treated in a certain way ie that they have the same legal rights isn’t the same as saying that they ARE the same in every single respect.

[quote TinselAngel]Compare it to this, from France:

www.womenarehuman.com/man-scores-win-in-legal-fight-to-be-recognized-as-mother-on-his-childs-birth-certificate/[/quote]
Very interesting article tinsel

@TinselAngel

I'm sorry, but I think you're all missing the point.

This is not a genuine attempt to make an analogy with adoptive parents, it's a pitch to be be able to usurp trans widow's status as the only mother of their child.

Barraker did an amazing thread on this a while ago - 'unrecognise her'

Saying that someone is to be treated in a certain way ie that they have the same legal rights isn’t the same as saying that they ARE the same in every single respect.

Yes and I think that's where there is an anaolgy with the Gender REcognition Act does work to an extent. The equivalent legal fiction is

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/9

"Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender"

but just as adoption law recognises that the biological reality persists (e.g. you can't marry your blood sister, your birth certificate isn't changed etc) so the biological reality is stil recognised despite a gender recogntion certificate (e.g. a transman who gives birth is still the mother).