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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Cleese asks a question

77 replies

EweSurname · 08/07/2020 23:53

I thought there was a John Cleese thread already but I can’t seem to find it. Has it been deleted?

He’s not shying away

John Cleese asks a question
OP posts:
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5
NotTerfNorCis · 09/07/2020 13:25

Ofgs Katy Montgomerie is touting that stupid article everywhere.

LillianBland · 09/07/2020 13:35

They say get a divorce, as it’s the easiest thing in the world, without taking into consideration that many things such as financial restraints and the fact that many of the trans widows are in controlling relationships.

andyoldlabour · 09/07/2020 13:42

HandsOffMyRights

"He's also been told to 'ask the grandkids' so he can be educated on the subject!"

Back in October 2018 when I first became aware of all this due to a rather large cyclist beating women on the track, I posted about the unfair/ridiculous nature of the spectacle on a cycling forum. Most of the replies agreed with me, but there were a couple of male cyclists who suggested that it was very complicated, and that I should probably speak to someone a lot younger than me in order to understand itConfused

andyoldlabour · 09/07/2020 13:53

It must be a bit of a chore, for Philip/Pippa Bunce's wife to have to keep guessing whether she is hetero or lesbian.

LillianBland · 09/07/2020 14:02

@HandsOffMyRights

He's also been told to 'ask the grandkids' so he can be educated on the subject!
Yup. I really think we should listen to the younger people, as they obviously know what they’re talking about. Now, just be clear, is it the young woke blokes and misogynistic handmaidens, or the young women losing their sports scholarships, privacy in school/higher education toilets and changing rooms, places on boards, rights to same sex relationships, etc to male bodied people who identify as trans, I’m supposed to listen to? I’m going to listen to the GC critical young people, is that ok? I assume I have a choice in who I listen to?

Honestly, the arrogance of them assuming that all young people are happy to trample over the rights of women.

TinselAngel · 09/07/2020 14:04

They say get a divorce, as it’s the easiest thing in the world, without taking into consideration that many things such as financial restraints and the fact that many of the trans widows are in controlling relationships.

And that not all women's religion / culture allows them to get divorced, or if they can they can't subsequently remarry.

These women need the option of annulment: hence the spousal exit clause in the GRA.

makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/post/trans-widows-and-the-spousal-veto-a-modern-fable-of-male-entitlement

SerenityNowwwww · 09/07/2020 14:06

Ageist. Isn't age a protected characteristic?

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 09/07/2020 14:10

He's great; but I really wish he had framed the question as, if my wife now identifies as a man, grows a beard and other body hair, lops off breasts etc, but wants to stay married, does that make me (JC) a gay man in a same sex marriage?

I think the "women must be support humans and accept they are lesbians" bit is always based around the sub-context that women don't have much agency in their relationships, and are in fact lucky to have got married in the first place. Does that make sense? I feel as if it's part of the same culture that accepts men in their middle age marrying twenty year olds as perfectly reasonable, but older woman-younger man relationships are somehow a bit unsavoury, and what's she playing at? Or the culture that requires women to diet and exercise and stay as young looking as possible, all whilst married to some "catch" who barely manages to brush their teeth. Or indeed, a culture that will vilify a woman who leaves the family home and children, but men generally get away with it (morally, and often financially). So women shouldn't have a problem if their husband grows breasts and dresses and behaves in a way that's a complete turn off. They need to check their thinking and adapt.

If the matter was flipped, and all those morally superior lefty men were being asked whether they would be happy to wake up one day to find their wife is now a breastless, bearded "husband", to be told they must be sexually aroused by this person, to be not bothered by their change in manner and behaviour, and to accept that all this time they had been gay, because their "wife" had never been a woman; would they be so quick to condemn these spouses as unloving, unfeeling t*rfs?

It's the other side of the coin of the Owen Jones' of this world telling lesbians they should accept penises, but completely failing to accept that, unless he accepted a male vagina haver as a partner, he would be a transphobe.

It all just boils down to misogyny 101.

StealthPolarBear · 09/07/2020 14:33

@andyoldlabour

It must be a bit of a chore, for Philip/Pippa Bunce's wife to have to keep guessing whether she is hetero or lesbian.
Really really good point that needs shouting from the rooftops as it exposes yet another piece of complete nonsense. How can the sexuality of an individual be defined the actions and appearance of someone else? Im not heterosexual because I'm a woman married to a man (sorry for the old fashioned use of those words, I don't know how else to say it). I'm a woman married to a man because I'm heterosexual.
SerenityNowwwww · 09/07/2020 14:39

Must make filling out silly forms a bit of a pain.

StealthPolarBear · 09/07/2020 15:41

"hello dear, what am I today?"

FWRLurker · 09/07/2020 17:17

How can the sexuality of an individual be defined the actions and appearance of someone else?

And this truly gets to the core of the matter. The only way “homogenderual” attraction can work is if sexuality is completely changeable and “fluid” For everyone. That’s why Queer theory is At root homophobic - It requires that your sexuality can be changed by another person.

I remember watching a documentary early in this business (must be around 2010) interviewing some American trans woman - May have been Jenny B?? - where at one point Jenny says they now identify as A Lesbian but her wife saying they still identify as straight. At the time I didn’t think much of it other than 🤔...

Like this trans woman’s wife and presumably Pip Bunces, I likewise never “became a lesbian” when my husband was trans identified because my husband was always male (The sex to which I was attracted) no matter how he identified.

(I do want to carve out some ambiguity here for people who transition surgically: I do not think I would be attracted any longer to my husband had he gotten breast implants for example).

ListeningQuietly · 09/07/2020 17:31

Glad that people have linked to the Loretta scene from Life of Brian

proves to me that Cleese knows exactly what he's up to Smile

QuentinWinters · 09/07/2020 17:59

Not to mention the fact that currently there are only 3 grounds for divorce before 2 years - adultery, desertion and unreasonable behaviour.
Now it really would be transphobic for the law to suggest being trans is unreasonable behaviour, so actually someone saying you can just divorce is saying you can separate and wait two years to divorce, which is quite risky from a financial perspective

PotholeParadise · 09/07/2020 18:00

StealthPolarBear

How can the sexuality of an individual be defined the actions and appearance of someone else? Im not heterosexualbecauseI'm a woman married to a man (sorry for the old fashioned use of those words, I don't know how else to say it). I'm a woman married to a manbecauseI'm heterosexual.

Something about your post has just clarified my thinking.

A bisexual woman remains bisexual in a monogamous relationship with a man. A lesbian woman in an arranged/forced marriage with a man (and I am sure there have been many) is not made straight.

If a woman chooses to continue a marriage with her spouse after the born male spouse transitions to live as a woman, that is her business, but her sexuality is not changed for her.

Socrates11 · 09/07/2020 22:44

Great post Olive, always a good idea to flip things around & see things a different way, makes the inconsistencies stand out a mile.

BusyProcrastinator · 09/07/2020 23:33

I wrote something like:
'TRANSPHOBE!! DIE IN A FIRE!!
Only joking! You're a man. As you were. In fact, tell me more of your views xx'

and I got a Twitter ban for it.

MrGHardy · 10/07/2020 00:15

He does get a lot of flack, but threats, abuse, dickpics - nothing (though to be fair I didn't check every single reply).

7Days · 10/07/2020 00:26

"You're not lesbian, you just haven't found the right penis-haver yet"

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 10/07/2020 07:17

The spouse can either agree or they get an annulment of the marriage. James Kirkups article below explains it admirably

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-minister-who-politely-refused-to-play-the-trans-language-game/amp

StealthPolarBear · 10/07/2020 07:37

@BusyProcrastinator

I wrote something like: 'TRANSPHOBE!! DIE IN A FIRE!! Only joking! You're a man. As you were. In fact, tell me more of your views xx'

and I got a Twitter ban for it.

Oh dear they're really not that bright are they?
highame · 10/07/2020 08:19

gender gendarmerie, what a fantastic phrase

CaveMum · 10/07/2020 08:25

I do hope someone has asked him how he feels that the “Loretta” scene from Life of Brian has actually started happening?!

John Cleese asks a question
GinUnicorn · 10/07/2020 08:34

I just hope more people wake up to the madness

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