A personal plight

[paxillin]

I have a 12 year old daughter who has now decided to be “they”. She never much conformed, she used to be the one girl pirate at the princesses and pirates party aged 4. I do not worry about that. I do seek to protect her from irreversible changes. I am not myself British, so I can leave the country with her (and my career, friends and life) if I need to. What can I do (if anything) to protect her from any irreversible changes? Can I protect her (if needed from herself)?

She does feel women get a lot of abuse in the world of gamers. She translates this to she cannot be a woman. I shall read feetfreckle's thread. I can see what you mean about not letting her near it, RedToothBrush, but the real world of a kid in a 15 week lockdown means whatever keeps them going really.

It is strange, she is aware the world of gaming isn't for women as it stands. My own reaction has always been, well, it isn't for me then. Hers is different. Her reaction is, she isn't right and the gamers are.

Im sorry but you are abdicating responsibility here.

Your first post stated you'd do anything to protect her and then you immediately say to the contrary by letting a twelve year old play.

Her response is one which is demonstrating she isn't emotional mature enough to deal with the pressures of that world and your response is to say 'oh but coronavirus'.

That's not an adequate response. Sorry.

No, that is just real life. 12 year olds do.

Problem is red if paxillin now stops her it’s classic closing the stable door after the horse and all that.

Plus, at least the DD has been able to discuss it with her mum at 12, while she’s still impressionable. Better than at 16, IMO.

No.

If she was in this situation in the real world you'd react differently. You are now making excuses for why you aren't prepared to step up parent and take her out of a situation she's not mature enough to handle. She's said she's aware of the abuse in the community and doesn't like it. What are you deliberately trying not to see here?

Shes 12 fgs. Seriously I've been in this community. 12 is far too young even if 'all her mates are doing it'. Be a parent.

Here are two recent threads that might be useful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3953878-12-yr-old-DD-Gender-Dysphoria-sudden-announcement

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3952739-The-effect-of-lockdown-on-transitioning-teen-girls

I’m afraid cutting out contact with strangers is really important - that doesn’t mean taking away games, just the online aspect.

You need to know exactly who she is talking to, which means limiting online use to real world friends only.

Restricting online access is completely normal parenting for a 12 year old, so don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. You wouldn’t let her go out in the street one her own chatting to strangers, don’t let the online version happen.

but the real world of a kid in a 15 week lockdown means whatever keeps them going really.

Bollocks.

Step up and parent.

Op has a choice and clearly she's got the problem of the horse having bolted but that doesn't mean you continue down that road of exposing your child to that environment!

Honestly, 12 year old says 'I've been in an environment which is abusive and that doesn't make me feel like I want to experience it as a girl' you don't then go 'oh well since she's already done that she should continue in that environment that the 12 year old herself has explicitly stated she finds abusive.

You have a conversation about why it might not be such a good idea aged 12.

If the horse has bolted you go catch it and then put a new lock on the stable door, you don’t just wave at it’s disappearing arse!

@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

but the real world of a kid in a 15 week lockdown means whatever keeps them going really.

Bollocks.

Step up and parent.

This wasn't a discussion on the rights and wrongs of gaming. No wonder everyone avoids the feminism boards.

Oh come on, it’s not that simple and you know it. Especially when you run the risk of an 18 year old horse being angry, resentful and full of distress kicking it’s way out.

Anyway, I think the OP actually wanted some help here, not endless kicking about her parenting.

This wasn't a discussion on the rights and wrongs of gaming. No wonder everyone avoids the feminism boards.

No its about how a 12 year old is mixing in circles and finding them abusive and is having a response from that which is troubling.

You can not ignore the problem of a 12 year old gaming if its part of the dynamic of what's going on.

@MellOhDee

Something that does sometimes get lost in our more modern times is that being gay is a process that takes some coming to terms with. That’s not because it needs fixing or is wrong, of course, but just because anything that’s different to the norm does.

Being in a sexual minority is a process and there are often negative feelings associated with this. Feelings of anger, denial, pride, shame, even feeling dirty - are normal. I think some young gay people are worried about sharing these feelings in case others think they are homophobic or in case they are impatiently brushed off under a ‘well there is nothing wrong with being gay!’ sort of response which is true but not helpful when you’re struggling. I’m not suggesting you do this obviously OP: just that the way the world is at the moment it’s actually quite hard to question yourself!

Being trans is comparatively easy, from a 12 year olds perspective. You don’t need difficult conversations about who you fancy or have to worry about your mates giving you a side-eye in the changing rooms: it’s an accident of nature, wrong body, simples.

I think understanding this - I could be wrong, I’m not 12! - might help, though. Being gay doesn’t need fixing or changing but she might just need a little longer to digest it.

I think this is a very important post OP.

All teens struggle with understanding who they are, but gay teens especially so.

I'd further add that I think it's hardest for sex non conforming lesbians.

Most women who are "celebrated" are so because of their feminine attributes.

One suggestion is to look at PeachyYoghurts Channel on YouTube.

She's an incredibly witty and clever gender critical Dutch lesbian who is brilliant at pointing out the flaws in TRA ideology in a humorous way.

Have a look and see if you think any of her videos might resonate with your daughter.

I'd also suggest you look up Lily Maynard whose written about her experiences when her 14 year old daughter identified as trans (and later desisted).

Other resources worth a look are Transgender Trend and Charlie Evans (The Detransition Advocacy Network) medium.com/@charlie.evans/charlie-evans-on-inventing-transgender-children-and-young-people-book-launch-27-10-19-11cc5c1343ce.

This wasn't a discussion on the rights and wrongs of gaming. No wonder everyone avoids the feminism boards.

I did say anything about the rights and wrongs of gaming, just that lockdown isn’t an excuse to leave your kid unattended, talking to strangers online.

Because it isn’t.

And clearly not everyone avoids the feminism boards or there would be no one here having this discussion.

@MellOhDee

Something that does sometimes get lost in our more modern times is that being gay is a process that takes some coming to terms with. That’s not because it needs fixing or is wrong, of course, but just because anything that’s different to the norm does.

Being in a sexual minority is a process and there are often negative feelings associated with this. Feelings of anger, denial, pride, shame, even feeling dirty - are normal. I think some young gay people are worried about sharing these feelings in case others think they are homophobic or in case they are impatiently brushed off under a ‘well there is nothing wrong with being gay!’ sort of response which is true but not helpful when you’re struggling. I’m not suggesting you do this obviously OP: just that the way the world is at the moment it’s actually quite hard to question yourself!

Being trans is comparatively easy, from a 12 year olds perspective. You don’t need difficult conversations about who you fancy or have to worry about your mates giving you a side-eye in the changing rooms: it’s an accident of nature, wrong body, simples.

I think understanding this - I could be wrong, I’m not 12! - might help, though. Being gay doesn’t need fixing or changing but she might just need a little longer to digest it.

I think this is a very important post OP.

All teens struggle with understanding who they are, but gay teens especially so.

I'd further add that I think it's hardest for sex non conforming lesbians.

Most women who are "celebrated" are so because of their feminine attributes.

One suggestion is to look at PeachyYoghurts Channel on YouTube.

She's an incredibly witty and clever gender critical Dutch lesbian who is brilliant at pointing out the flaws in TRA ideology in a humorous way.

Have a look and see if you think any of her videos might resonate with your daughter.

I'd also suggest you look up Lily Maynard whose written about her experiences when her 14 year old daughter identified as trans (and later desisted).

Other resources worth a look are Transgender Trend and Charlie Evans (The Detransition Advocacy Network) medium.com/@charlie.evans/charlie-evans-on-inventing-transgender-children-and-young-people-book-launch-27-10-19-11cc5c1343ce.

Sorry for the double post - not sure what happened.

Anyway, I think the OP actually wanted some help here, not endless kicking about her parenting.

Have you read the threads I linked to?

I don’t think it is part of the dynamic, actually, it’s inevitable she’d come across this.

I’ve seen work sent home for year 7s about inspirational teens with transgender YouTube stars. That’s from school. Are we going to suggest we don’t send kids to school?

It’s everywhere and it’s impossible to avoid.

Oh come on, it’s not that simple and you know it

She's 12.

It is that simple.

Talking about what they will be like in 6 years time as an 18 year old is ridiculous. Might be different if you were talking about a 15 or 16 year old.

But this is a 12 year old.

If you want to praise my posts de then you post as much as you like

It’s everywhere and it’s impossible to avoid.

Yes. Which is precisely why the parenting part is really fucking important. When you are up against strong messaging from all angles you have to make strong boundaries.

I wasn't after someone telling me I am doing mothering all wrong, redtoothbrush.

The dysphoria threads are a bit frightening. I have no wish to stop her gaming, she is not just gaming, but programming in the pursuit of this, it is what she likes. But yes, I shall try to find some women who do this.

red the point is in this instance it’s gaming, it could just as easily have been a PSHE lesson in school, a friends brother or sister, a magazine, a YouTuber they like.

If paxillin now bans her DD from gaming, do you honestly think she’s going to say ‘oh yes mum, actually you are right. I am a girl and I will grow into a woman and that’s all there is to it’?

Realistically, she won’t, will she?

She will be resentful and that will drive a wedge between pax and her DD at a time when the two need to be as close as possible.