Ghislaine Maxwell

[RadandMad]

Not GC, but I'd be interested to hear what you think motivated GM to do the stuff she did. I mean she's rich, beautiful, Oxbridge educated, so what on earth did Epstein have to offer her? If she was simply in love with him, how did that work given he evidently preferred young girls to her. I'm intrigued by the psychology at work here.

@FannyCann

Why on earth did she decide to stay in the US?

According to the Fail, she has £16M in the bank, British, French and US passports. Supposedly her lawyers advised her to stay in the US and will argue that she had a chance to leave but did not. That will go in her favour with respect to getting bail.

🤷‍♀️ Who knows?

Or, according to Camilla Long in The Sunday Times, it gave her and the FBI time to negotiate.

It has all been sewn up in advance. The powerful have been protected and Andrew is the fall guy.

I worked for RM. It was a very junior position and it was very brief but it was enough to see that he was a frightening man and that most of his staff were frightened of him. The atmosphere was really horrible.

RM glorified in being a crook and that people were too scared to challenge him. JE was the same - it was all about power / security.
He got that by blackmailing the rich and famous whom he provided 'abuse services' for, and then recorded.

GM was in thrall to that, like she had been with Daddy.
She was afraid of having no money / power - Daddy died re this.

Then there were the very odd family dynamics she grew up in.
RM liked to pit his children against each other and against him.
GM was 'Daddy's little girl' in a very unhealthy way - undone by death.
She may have 'loved' JE / had a sexual response to him.
She may have procured and directly abused just because of that, or she may have had a latent / developed a streak of sadism over time.

I think abuse is about power and cruelty expressed via sex and RM was all about power in the world and cruelty with his children.
So, it was 'in her DNA' and in her twisted growing up environment.

Does this 'excuse her' - NO.
It doesn't help to 'monster' others, it is more useful to understand why, in the hope of preventing further occurrences.

I too have small hopes the victims will ever receive much justice.
There are too many powerful people involved. Society is corrupt.
But I hope she sings like a canary soon because I fear she may 'have an accident' like JE did. As much truth as possible should come out.

I think measures to ensure the law applies to everyone, regardless of wealth and influence, would do a lot more to prevent similar cases than cod analysis of Ghislaine Maxwell's inner psyche.

And if Maxwell seriously has a PR team, here's a free tip: Even now, she could still do the right thing and co-operate with the prosecution. It's not too late. You're welcome.

He got that by blackmailing the rich and famous whom he provided 'abuse services' for, and then recorded.

I think this is a key point. As well as allegations of abuse, there is evidence of organised crime. She can argue all she wants about consent, but it seems likely that there is an evidence trail that links the people in the tapes to financial transactions that benefited Epstein and Maxwell.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/04/high-society-to-hideaway-arrest-ghislaine-maxwells-dramatic-fall

"The Southern District of New York ran the investigation into Epstein through its Public Corruption Unit, as it had with its case against Epstein. The charges against Maxwell, involving three alleged but unnamed victims, overlap with the charges brought against the former financier, who killed himself while in custody days after being formally charged.

Both are signals, overt and covert, that neither case was ever truly about Epstein or Maxwell’s alleged sexual misconduct. The Southern District is primarily the federal government’s prosecuting arm for Wall Street securities fraud, organised crime and political corruption; prosecutors do not make their careers busting sex crimes, whatever the level of moral public outrage."

Epstein's fabulous wealth probably came from money laundering.

He was supposed to be a financial advisor but he didn't have an account with a single Wall Street financial house. There is no trace of what he did, or for whom.

Someone very powerful doesn’t want this to come out and will spend money on it.

I'd say many someones. And I think Camilla Long in The Times is right to suggest her arrest was negotiated, hence the lack of TV footage.

I'm not expecting anyone really to be held to account. I suspect Trump will be diagnosed with dementia after losing the election and Clinton will be manipulated into doing useful things.

The FBI will take notes and lock them away until they need them.

I can't imagine what GM has been offered. Maybe a choice of execution method?

can't imagine what GM has been offered. Maybe a choice of execution method?
Guards who notice and react when someone tries to strangle her?

Just read "The Great Gatsby" about how rich people behave. They know they can do anything they like to everyone and anyone. Just because they can.

She might meet with "an accident" same as him. Whatever they've got on tape about all these rich people is not anything they want to come out.

Not entirely the case - and Gatsby is fiction.

Andrew's mistake was to think of himself as rich and powerful but he is nothing in comparison with Clinton or Elon Musk. There are degrees of rich and powerful. He's been set up as the fall guy. Ghislaine Maxwell has too but she'll worm her way out of it. As far as the FBI is concerned the girls are a side issue. My guess is that they want Epstein's financial clients and the additional services he offered might be a way in.

@Al1Langdownthecleghole I was a bit disturbed to discover in that Netflix documentary that Clinton had hung out with Epstein. Especially as I'd laughed at my alt right conspiracy-theorist childhood friend who went on to me once about how evil the Clintons were.

That’s the part I couldn’t get. If Trump was embroiled as much as Clinton was, why the hatred towards Hilary (obviously misogyny aside because he hates all women, especially those with power). Surely you’d expect him to tow a better line if she had sensitive information on him regarding Epstein.

Please stop saying she was 'groomed' by her father. She participated in most of the abuse. She is a paedophile and abused out of choice. There doesn't have to be a reason, she did it because she wanted to. She also liked the social climbing and was greedy for money and power. I've heard lots of stories about her cruelty to animals too. There was a party where she was throwing her little puppy against a wall and laughing. No one called her out on it. Evil bitch

@SisterAgatha

That’s the part I couldn’t get. If Trump was embroiled as much as Clinton was, why the hatred towards Hilary (obviously misogyny aside because he hates all women, especially those with power). Surely you’d expect him to tow a better line if she had sensitive information on him regarding Epstein.

Your logic doesn't make sense. You expect him to be friendly towards his rival for the presidency because they may have dirt on each other? If this is the case shouldn't Hillary also be friendly towards Trump? It looks as if the Clintons are in it up to their necks.

What would make sense is for them to be rivals in public but protective of each other's interests in private. Which is probably what's happening.

When you say 'tow a better line', do you mean behave more civilly?

When I say behaved better towards her, I mean less of the vitriol and personal name calling which might make a person with the right inside knowledge suddenly start making anonymous tip offs to the police.

@Floisme

I think measures to ensure the law applies to everyone, regardless of wealth and influence, would do a lot more to prevent similar cases than cod analysis of Ghislaine Maxwell's inner psyche.

And if Maxwell seriously has a PR team, here's a free tip: Even now, she could still do the right thing and co-operate with the prosecution. It's not too late. You're welcome.

I agree completely. However, having worked at a young age for one of the UK's biggest fraudsters, I knew straight away that there was something 'off' about him (I had no idea WHAT just knew there was something about the way he enjoyed power and how he viewed 'the little people'. Obvs no one would listen to a Secretary who couldn't have put a finger on it anyway. But he was another 'hiding in plain sight' type. I understand it took the SFO years to work it out. I don' think they ever got to the bottom of it and he has largely evaded justice. It stinks.

brownvalleyobserver.com/2020/07/03/ghislaine-maxwell-has-tested-positive-for-covid-19-in-new-hampshire-jail-doj-reports/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That was quick
One medically trained prison officer?! I think not.

@SisterAgatha

When I say behaved better towards her, I mean less of the vitriol and personal name calling which might make a person with the right inside knowledge suddenly start making anonymous tip offs to the police.

You've missed the fact that both the Trumps and the Clintons associated with Epstein. And the 'vitriol and personal name calling' worked both ways. Remember the basket of deplorables? No, it appears you don't.

The Clintons appear to have strong ties with Epstein. Bill and Epstein were involved in the same kind of charity work and spent a week in Africa together. Ghislaine was at Chelsea Clinton's wedding.

By your logic, Hillary should be 'towing' the line much more than Donald.

@colouringindoors

brownvalleyobserver.com/2020/07/03/ghislaine-maxwell-has-tested-positive-for-covid-19-in-new-hampshire-jail-doj-reports/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That was quick
One medically trained prison officer?! I think not.

It certainly would be quick if this were actual news.

I like this article better. It has an interview with Dr Dougie Howzer.

brownvalleyobserver.com/2020/02/04/top-doctors-suggest-giving-coronavirus-information-that-could-lead-to-hillary-clintons-arrest/

It's such a cliche but power corrupts. She wanted someone like her dad and acted like a pimp/madam for Epstein.

The truly depressing thing is the other properly powerful culprits will get away with it when this damaged individual is burned at the stake. Not defending her abuse, she's a lowlife but she's the tip of the iceberg controlled by powerful men.

How can PA possibly wriggle out of this now? He makes me sick.

Hillary should be 'towing' the line much more than Donald.

Hardly. I think Nasty Woman is a little more personal than what she said, given that she has evidence to back up every allegation against him. How does a woman defend herself publicly against a nasty woman charge, what evidence would be acceptable to the contrary? None.

Trump has shown his hand and thrown everything he had at her. She can clearly bring out should the mood take her. This is why I wonder why he went after her so vehemently, given that I believe he is fully embroiled in the Epstein business.

@SisterAgatha

Hillary should be 'towing' the line much more than Donald.

Hardly. I think Nasty Woman is a little more personal than what she said, given that she has evidence to back up every allegation against him. How does a woman defend herself publicly against a nasty woman charge, what evidence would be acceptable to the contrary? None.

Trump has shown his hand and thrown everything he had at her. She can clearly bring out should the mood take her. This is why I wonder why he went after her so vehemently, given that I believe he is fully embroiled in the Epstein business.

How does he defend himself against the basket of deplorables comment? What evidence would be acceptable?

What does 'she can clearly bring out' mean?

I'm sure you do fully believe Trump is embroiled in the Epstein business but this isn't about Hillary vs Trump and who you support. The election is long gone. They are both embroiled and the Clintons appear to be embroiled more than Trump. Bill is taken to be a saint these days but he was a prolific womaniser. Bill was actually impeached because he lied about Monica Lewinsky. Both Bill and Hillary lied about Jennifer Flowers.

That's not to say that Bill has ever been involved with underage girls. He is very fond of money though.

She said "They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic".

A politician is able to defend themselves against charges like this by giving examples of where they have, on the record, done the opposite. So examples of charity work, donations, speeches in support of gay rights, women’s rights, campaigns they have led, policy they have changed and so on.

What evidence of that sort can a woman use against a charge of being nasty? It’s is a subjective term. Any response made to a charge like that will only be met with further derision.

Back to the point about Trump being embroiled in the Epstein affair, the reason it is relevant to Ghislaine Maxwell is that she has been arrested in the US and did not flee to France where she could have had diplomatic protection. Why not flee to France unless she had sure protection on her side, and what could come higher than the president.

Why Hillary didn’t use such sensitive information about Trump, if she had it, is what puzzles me and it may mean if Bill is involved she did not what to involve him in case of further legal charges.

The election is gone. But their relationship and the crimes they may or may not have committed together remain and this is now something Ghislaine may use to her advantage. The question really is how deep is the rot.

To bring out, means to bring up

If she knows about this business then 'nasty' is the correct word.

Why is it when a woman does a heinous crime it’s almost looked at as if she wasn’t in control of her actions.
Blame her father, blame her partner. Almost absolve her of any wrong doing.
“I know what she did was wrong but ...”

Epstein was a wealthy somewhat handsome bachelor who could have his pick of women, but he chose to abuse his power. He got a kick out of it, it wasn’t about sex but about the power of someone. The power that you can make anyone do anything whether they want to or not.

Maybe MG just got a kick out of it too. She’s just as bad as him.