"How the 'Karen Meme' Confronts the Violent History of White Womanhood"

[Igneococcus]

This just popped up as a recomendation in Firefox when I open a new tab. I can't fully read it right now because I'm in a meeting any moment now (someone's still sorting out techinical issues), but a first quick scan makes me go "WTF" :

time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

@DidoLamenting

He's the most racist stereotyping pale and stale male that you are likely to meet - he's alf garnet on steroids, thankfully he lives in west Wales - a long way away and full of his type of people

I think that anything that casually stereotypes any person, on an individual level is lazy and unhelpful

Do you not see the irony of saying that anything that casually stereotypes any person on an individual level is lazy and unhelpful when placed beside your lazy stereotyping of the residents of north Wales?

@DidoLamenting

It's West Wales (not North) where he and his cronies reside - they are English ex-expats and I haven't dissed the Welsh - do read my posts, or is English comprehension not your best subject?

The problem stems from the wider objectification of women, because viewing women as objects confers an intrinsic value (this comes with a commensurate reduction of agency) both as sex objects and all the free labour women do. This leads to the unfortunate reality that women are sorted into categories of greater and lesser value, with black women being valued less. So I can see where the friction comes from, as some white women trying to navigate a system that only values them in specific narrow ways as opposed to full human beings, trying to snatch what agency and influence they can.

I am reminded of one of my friends who as a younger woman made her cheerleading squad (along with another African American student) at her high school. Two white mothers raised objections as their two white daughters were passed over, and unconsciously whilst they may not have been actively racists, and of course had no trouble with the idea of African American students on the team had a massive problem as they viewed these two girls as having taken their two girls “spots”. I think this is the sort of shit black women have to contend with that is so frustrating.

One of the white girls mothers was also responsible for providing the uniforms so obviously expected special treatment and it’s THIS sort of exercise of privilege that (both racial AND class/economic) that’s so pernicious and difficult to uproot.

Slightly off topic but are there any black Americans on this thread who can explain why people there seem to prefer to say “African American” instead of black? I always felt like it was negative because it’s like qualifying their Americanness, as if you’re not full Americans, you’re AFRICAN Americans. There is no equivalent continent term for white Americans - we don’t say “European-American”, for example, just specific countries like “Italian-American” or “Irish-American”. Also for many black Americans I imagine the connection to Africa is very very remote now. But I guess it could also be a way of honouring the memory of the enslaved people from whom you may have descended.

A black American friend told me that it was just “more polite” than saying “black”. Is it? How do you feel about it?

I think they do day Irish American and Italian American don't they?

Not a USA person but sure I have heard that.

There is no equivalent continent term for white Americans - we don’t say “European-American”, for example, just specific countries like “Italian-American” or “Irish-American”.

I'm British, but to me the reasons seem obvious. Plenty of Americans claim their ancestors arrived on the Mayflower. They have records to trace their ancestry, and the country their ancestors travelled from still exists.

If you think about the treatment of slaves and the history of Africa even after the slave trade ended, it becomes clear that, for horrifying reasons, it isn't possible for all Americans to trace their ancestry or claim a country of origin in the same way.

HarryHarry

I think part of the reason is that in the US most black people don't really know where in Africa their ancestors came from, and in fact it's probably a good mix. So it's not possible to be as specific as "Italian-American".

But there have been a fair number too who don't like the term for the exact reasons you say. I don't think you are really safer to use it rather than black - it's a coin flip if the person you are talking to will prefer one or the other.

It’s funny how it’s white men who built the patriarchy, the capitalist systems that place black bodies at the bottom of the pile, amassed the worlds wealth by using those bodies, continue to protect and uphold those systems the world over. Yet when it comes to trial by twitter and the ‘woke’ vitriol it’s always, always women who get it and are made the example of. I don’t condone any of their actions, but I’ve seen far more criticism of these women than, say, the men who have murdered black people. But twitter is a cesspit of misogyny, so I’m not surprised. That article is a largely a load of toss

Yep - perfectly stated. I completely agree.

Why is the BBC trying to meme? That's just embarrassing. You are not cool, BBC, and being cool is not your job.

1. 'Educate yourself'
2. 'Try not to be defensive'.
3. 'Don't be so loud'.
4. 'Basically, leave'

That was indeed an offensive, women-silencing piece of shit broadcasting. I've 'basically left' and shall continue to focus my energies on feminism.

Of those 4 demands the first two might be reasonable in some contexts, but he last 2 deserve no response other than "nope, fuck off".

@Antibles

1. 'Educate yourself'

1. 'Try not to be defensive'.
2. 'Don't be so loud'.
3. 'Basically, leave'

That was indeed an offensive, women-silencing piece of shit broadcasting. I've 'basically left' and shall continue to focus my energies on feminism.

Same.

If you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, by virtue of your sex and skin colour and NOT your actions, there is no role other than as willing puppet, punching bag, and scapegoat for the actions of white men.

As an abuse survivor, I'm not hanging around for that.

Also I notice that the young white woman making the list seems to have no plans of shutting up and leaving herself. Young women rebelling against their mums isn't revolutionary, it's just adolescence, which currently seems to extend well into the 20s for those who aren't forced by circumstances to grow up and get a job.

'The fact that there is not a male equivalent of the term “Karen” does not mean that “Karen” is misogynist, it means that it’s a label specifically describing the weaponisation of a particular type of white femininity, come on, this isn’t hard'

In the UK "Charlotte" and "Amelia" could specifically describe the weaponisation of a particular kind of class privilege. Come on, this isn't hard.

Just seen that BBC video. Women should be quiet and 'just leave'? What kind of Handmaid's Tale vibe is this?

The BBC tweet appears to have been disappeared?

And now anyone reacting to it on Twitter is being labelled “Karen”.

Men don’t even have to bother being misogynist anymore, women are doing the job for them.

The BBC deleted the tweet?

Gosh, I hope they weren't being defensive. Because that would be ironic.

You can call women Karens, t*s, bitches, witches, all you want. There's just too many of us to shut us all up, at the end of the day.

The BBC tweet appears to have been disappeared?

The podcast episode ‘No country for young women’ is still there I see.

You can leave a rating or a review on iTunes should you feel so inclined...

ScrimpshawTheSecond Mon 06-Jul-20 14:47:23
I see, RoyalCorgi. There seem to be quite a few of these educated, well spoken white women who do a lot of hectoring and attacking of older, less privileged women. Odd, really. Maybe not.
......
They aren't all called 'Karen' though.
It's the name I object to.

In the UK "Charlotte" and "Amelia" could specifically describe the weaponisation of a particular kind of class privilege. Come on, this isn't hard.

Seriously?

If you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, by virtue of your sex and skin colour and NOT your actions, there is no role other than as willing puppet, punching bag, and scapegoat for the actions of white men.

As an abuse survivor, I'm not hanging around for that.

I keep doing this today! I completely agree with Heist.

jess, I was referring to the women in the BBC clip who were saying 'Karens' should shut up and leave. I completely agree with you.

FWIW I'm quite happy to consider intersectionality within feminism in terms of black women, other pressures faced etc. The 'Karen' slur is not that, though. It's just ageist, classist and sexist.

Still laughing about the BBC deleting that tweet. Turns out that the general public isn't so keen on being smarmed at by smug kids, eh? I wonder if the delayed impact of Labour getting a thorough arse kicking at the last election is starting to sink in.

That clip was basically just "women older than me should shut up and make way for me". Nah, kid, not happening.