Your age is your age, your sex is your sex. Neither can be changed.

[WindyTown]

After reading about the Allison Bailey case today, I was thinking about how someone simply saying they identify as their non biological sex was to be accepted as such without question and how crazy this was.

And it came to me how this could be compared to age. So please hear me out and tell me if it makes no sense. And apologies in advance for going off on a tangent.

There are some people who say that they do not feel their age and feel older than they are or younger than they are etc. And of course that is fine. People can feel how they want and dress and behave how they want provided they are not hurting others.

So an example: A person might say they still feel like they are 20 years old and wish to still go out partying every night; however their age is actually 70 years old. Just because this person “feels” they are 20 years old and demands others accept this as a fact, should everyone accept that their age is 20 despite the fact that their biological age is actually 70?
The answer is no; no one would ever accept their age is 20. Their age is what they were born with, it is a scientific, biological fact. It cannot be changed.
However, no one would object to the 70 year old going out partying every night should they wish to.
But the fact is, a person simply cannot claim to be a certain age based on how they “feel” and demand that others accept this as their age. Their age is a biological truth which cannot be changed and it is what it is. But of course, the 70 year old is free to act as if they were 20 years old should they wish to and no one would give a damn. Just don’t say you are 20 years old when you aren’t.

Just like if a 40 year old biological male demanded to be allowed in to a children’s play centre because he “feels” that he is 10 years old and therefore should be accepted as a child. Yet everyone can see he is not a child; he is a grown, adult man. His mature, adult body is evidence that he is not a child. Yet he is demanding others accept that he is a child because he “feels” he is a child and should be treated as such.
Should he be accepted as a child due to him “feeling” he is a child or do we accept the scientific and biological evidence, as well as what others can clearly see; that he is NOT a child and cannot be allowed in to children’s spaces.

A person is what they are. They are free to act how they want provided they are not hurting anyone; just don’t claim to be something which you biologically and scientifically are not and can never and don’t demand that others accept what is not scientifically and biologically true and never will be true.

(.......And breathe!)

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stefonknee-wolschtt-transgender-father-leaves-family-in-toronto-to-start-new-life-as-a-six-year-old-a6769051.html

There was a Dutch man who wanted to be recorded as being 20 years younger as his dr said his health was that if someone 20 years younger.

Needless to say he wasnt allowed to change his birth certificate.

Watching him interviewed along side Jane fae was hilarious.

There was an interesting case of a man in the Nederlands who tried and failed to legally do change his age.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46425774

X post with Sarah.

Watching him interviewed along side Jane fae was hilarious.

Here's another instance from the US earlier this year - Michigan: Previously convicted sex abuser Joseph Gobrick, 45, defends self against new child pornography charges by claiming to be an eight year old girl, is sentenced to up to 20 years. From the court record: “I’ve always been an 8-year-old girl. And even my drawings and fantasies, I am always an 8-year-old."

nypost.com/2020/01/14/convicted-sex-offender-offers-bizarre-defense-in-kiddie-porn-case/

I feel like I’m in my 70s and should get a pension, free bus pass, free TV license, winter fuel allowance...

I'd like to change the birthdate on my official documents so I can identify as a cool quirky Aquarian - is that possible? All the cis-starsign folx out there can't understand the turmoil us astrologically-dysphoric souls feel who should have been born under a differing star

@BahHumbygge I’m an Aquariun, not all it’s cracked up to be.

Thanks for sharing that video - it was very amusing. Jane Fae's insistence that gender identity isn't the same thing as a feeling. If it's not based on feelings then what on Earth is it?

It seemed very much like Jane was basically saying 'you're not allowed to be special, I'M the special one'.

So I think you’re confusing sex with gender. You are also confusing mathematics with sex determination. You’re not really helping anyone other than saying ‘it’s just obvious- girls have long hair and boys have short hair - and that’s how you tell the difference in schools -just fact!
For example there are people born male (ie with male chromosomes) whose bodies do not respond to testosterone but do respond to progesterone. They do not develop male genitalia and grow up believing themselves to be women until they don’t menstruate. When it’s discovered they usually don’t wish to follow the ‘fact’ that they are male because they are female in every other respect (albeit often tall).

People’s birth sex is made ‘fact’ by external genitalia at birth. Sometimes it’s indeterminate, sometimes it’s wrong -so it’s not fact and doesn’t always settle the matter.
But 2 plus 2 is always 4. So not the same thing at all.

People’s sexuality, their gender and their inner and outward self can be very different.

Some people who have periods don’t wish to be considered female, and live as a man. I’ll respect their choice, and call them by the name they choose and the pronouns they prefer. I think it’s a shame men and women can’t be as masculine or as feminine as they like without feeling the need to be defined as man or woman. But I don’t really care what the clinician put on the notes after looking at their genitalia for a few seconds when they were born.

I feel like I'm 103 and I still haven't had my birthday card from her Maj.

Dadaist

I agree that people should be as masculine or feminine as they wish regardless of the reality of their biological sex.

But the reality of their sex, recorded by a clinician after 'a glance at their genitalia for a few seconds' will have an impact on their life whether they like it or not!

But the reality of their sex, recorded by a clinician after 'a glance at their genitalia for a few seconds' will have an impact on their life whether they like it or not!

Well that’s just it. I wear jeans and t-shirts every day. No make up. And yet my sex has impacted every aspect of my life from my income to what behaviour’s expected from me in the office to how often I get shouted at on the street.

But using that logistic... a 25yo who has a learning disability which means they have the mental age of a 7yo. Should we then turn around and say.. but there 25 and therefore must act 25? Should be say they must go and get a full time job and remove all 24/7 support because they are BIOLOGICALLY 25? Or do we accept that mentally they are not 25 and therefore are treated in a appropriate way to match their mental age? Because there mental age is not quantifiable or tangible we just accept that it does happen to some people due to things outside their control. But if we cannot accept or consider anything that is not physically quantifiable or tangible then we should not be accepting that adults with severe learning disabilities can have a mental age younger then their physical age and therefore you surely belive jts all a act to get support, or not have to work, or get access to funding and retreats etc etc......

Ooh - @FerventFox - are you saying that being trans is comparable to having a learning disability? Because, two can play at your game Fox.

While official age should not be changed under any circumstances, I find "age identity" far more convincing than "gender identity". Because "age identity" is not just about feelings; some people's bodies simply are in a younger or older condition, and they look it.

I've seen 30 year old who look 50, and vice versa.

Healthy/unhealthy lifestyles and eating habits, genes, environment, all these can influence our rate of ageing and appearance.

That's why we are generally uncertain when asked to guess someone's age.

We're never uncertain about someone's sex; we don't even have to guess.

And still it would be ridiculous to alter official records according to one's "age identity". A functioning society needs records to be kept in an orderly and fixed manner; it cannot be arbitrary and individual for a variety of reasons.

No confusion between sex and gender her Dadaist but you seem very confused between medical disorders and being transgender.

Yes, intersex conditions are not at all the same thing as gender dysphoria.

Taking the idea further, if we can arbitrarily change our sex and d.o.b., how about species? Can I self-identify as a rare orchid and go and live rent-free and unchallenged in a wood or a field somewhere in a SSSI?

If not, why not?

And still it would be ridiculous to alter official records according to one's "age identity". A functioning society needs records to be kept in an orderly and fixed manner; it cannot be arbitrary and individual for a variety of reasons

And like with changing sex markers on official documents, can you imagine the health impacts of a false age.

All the pregnancy tests not done on women because they decided to identify as someone older and as 60 year olds dont get pregnant pregnancy was missed.

Or someone identified as younger and because now the menopause is now recorded as happening between the ages of say 25 and 50 someone whos 26 and menopausal might not think to seek help .

It's as bonkers and dangerous as everything else.

Some people jusy need to be told NO. And learn to deal with it

Dadaist

I don't think there is confusion here. Please DO NOT bring people with DSDs into a discussion to prove 'being assigned' at birth. You do realise that with modern medicine, even people with differences have their sex reliably categorised.

Could you please clarify how your example works? I am not sure how a person with a disability with a transgender person is comparable, but I am happy to listen.

@FerventFox But a 25yo with the mental age of a 7yo is not the same as a 25yo saying they "identify" as a 7yo i.e. a person with typical psychological abilities expected of a 25yo saying that they just have this intangible feeling that they are really a 7yo and wish to be treated as such.

If an adult has the mental age of a 7yo, we're not actually saying they have a 7yo's brain, are we? We're saying they have psychological abilities comparative to a typical 7yo.

A 25yo with the mental capacity of a 7yo is not treated like a 7yo. The 25 yo would not attend primary school or Brownies or be allowed into children's spaces without a DBS check.

A 25yo would not be able to compete in under-10s sport.

A 25 yo with a mental age of 7 is not the same as a 7 yo child. They may have similar intellectual capacity, but their emotional and physical maturity will be different and they will have very different life experiences.

For example, while a child can never legally or morally consent to sex, that's not necessarily true for intellectually handicapped adults, especially if their partner is of similar intellectual capability.

Sorry dadaist. I was asking ferventfox. Apologies.