Why r/GenderCritical was banned by Reddit

[MadBadDaddy]

Hi! TRA here! Thought I'd take a quick breather from all the crowing, high-fiving, etc. to throw a lifeline to any actual open-minded critical thinkers wondering why Reddit banned r/gendercritical. Basically, you have 2 options when it comes to what to believe:

1. It's a true conspiracy: silicon valley, hollywood & the media are in the thrall of the well-funded TransAgenda, the need for woke points, child-groomers, women-haters, MRAs, etc. etc.

1. r/GenderCritical was hateful - if you want evidence then go to r/GenderCynical which existed to harvest said hatefulness. Read their strictly enforced rules about hate speech, misogyny, anti-feminism, pile-ons, doxxing, etc. (NB: abbreviating "trans exclusionary radical feminist" is not considered hate speech on this subreddit) and then sort their posts by "top" and "all time" and judge for yourself.

The trans men, trans women and non-binary people of Reddit do not hate women and do not tolerate abuse. Have a better day. x

I’m going to guess they’re still standing as no one is actively campaigning to get them taken down.

[quote PacificState]@madbaddaddy I agree with you that too many posts on here come down to 'because trans' and I think that's transphobic.

I note your refusal to condemn the rape subs.

You cannot logically posit that GC was closed solely because it was hateful. The survival of rape subs when GC is closed clearly shows that this is not only about hateful content. If that was the metric, the rape subs would be banned.

In the absence of a proper explanation from Reddit, deep and violent misogyny is simply the most likely explanation for why one was banned while the other remains. Not hate.[/quote]
Any sub or board with words like 'rape' in the title is abhorrent, and also various euphemisticaly titled 'dark humour' subs (some of which I think have been recently banned). Sad that I have to make this clear but I understand.

I'm on several 'trans' subs. If I saw any hint of sexual or violent threats or even 'dark humour' I would not let it slide, and I can't imagine anyone else I hang out with would either. If they did I would have a go at them too. In any case the mods would jump all over it, because you can bet your bones we are scrutinised.

But I literally never see it. I see no signs of a seething hotbed of rage, frustration or resentment. Sometimes I see mod-deleted comments, but if I check the replies they usually look like trolls.

And believe what you like, but I have yet to see a heartfelt "suck my appendage" type comment that seems to have captured the wider GC imagination.

And while I'm at it....no, not many think that it's transphobic for a lesbian to not sleep with someone with a penis. There was a massively long and detailed thread on r/asktransgender yesterday from someone asking "I have some uncomfortable questions... am I a T3RF?" and this was her question #6. There were 163 comments, some interesting, some dull, but I saw none that said "yes it is and yes you are"

GC dug its own hole. If you want to see powerful women's voices talking smack about the stuff that bugs them, there are plenty of options. My personal favourite is r/witchesvspatriarchy "the daughters of witches they failed to burn"

Funny how these threads turn out and what gets deleted.

Just a coincidence I'm sure.

@MadBadDaddy, a cursory glance at 'GenderCynical' shows multiple posts about Mumsnet. There's lots of accusations that Mumsnet is a hateful, transphobic website. So...are the women here supposed to accept that Mumsnet is just as 'hateful' as Gender Critical? Do you agree with Gender Cynical that Mumsnet is full of bigots?

WeeBisom

I think 'full' is a strong word, but you certainly have a reputation.

Personally, I would describe it more as 'discomforting' for someone like myself, and that's just from lurking. I only decided to stick my neck out because I have direct experience of both sites, and I was drunk.

And believe what you like, but I have yet to see a heartfelt "suck my appendage" type comment that seems to have captured the wider GC imagination.

Perhaps because you're not going to be the recipient for that type of comment or because like many TRA's you've mass blocked women on Twitter and don't see what appears on their timelines?

Just go and look on JKR's Twitter.

Even when she's responding to drawings from young children some activists are posting vile tweets.

It's not a case of what I believe.

It's what I can see and what I've experienced.

Here's a link....

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1277913768064843776?s=21

If anyone wants to get a taste of what most of the posts on r/gendercritical were like, I believe lots of them are available in an archive on rareddit.com

And believe what you like, but I have yet to see a heartfelt "suck my appendage" type comment that seems to have captured the wider GC imagination.

We can link you some?

GC dug its own hole. If you want to see powerful women's voices talking smack about the stuff that bugs them, there are plenty of options. My personal favourite is r/witchesvspatriarchy "the daughters of witches they failed to burn"

Except most "feminist" subs ban GC women? I went on one the other day and forgot which one I was in, I was in a feminist question answering one, but not a radical feminist one, and I answered the question, but I wasn't sufficiently TWAW and I got banned within the hour.

DeRigueurMortis

Sorry, but I'm not here to say anything about Twitter, other than it is the bottom of the internet and we've all got our own horror stories. And I don't think I've ever blocked anyone, but that's probably because I don't really engage.

You're right, no-ones ever asked me suck anything online. I have mixed feelings on that. But my broader point on abusive banter applies.

But my broader point on abusive banter applies.

What was your broader point?

I only saw you make a specific comment that implied that because you haven't seen that type of comment it it's usage is being over played by women.

If you want to see powerful women's voices talking smack about the stuff that bugs them, there are plenty of options. My personal favourite is r/witchesvspatriarchy "the daughters of witches they failed to burn"

And what if you want a space exclusively for natal women and girls, where you can discuss the reality of sex-based oppression, using accurate sex-based pronouns if necessary? Where can you go then?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: r/gendercritical was not a space you were welcome in. It was not a space intended for you. It was, in fact, specifically designed to offer an escape from your ideology, which many women find to be sexist by its very nature.

None of your "many other options" could serve the same purpose. It says a lot that you think they could - that you can't see the problem at all, in fact. Your attitude is "well I don't need a space like that, and I can't imagine why anyone else would, so it shouldn't exist".

There are just some things that "bug" women that we can't "talk smack" about in mixed sex spaces.

MadBadDaddy, it sounds like you sometimes have a hard time and I feel bad for you. It is understandable that you don’t want any more pain.

What I fail to understand is how you, a) on a broader scale can be so happy that GC was deleted when so many horrific rape /porn subs remains? And b) how in the quest to get away from your own pain you seem to fail to consider that your very method to do this (entering female sex only spaces) may increase the pain for other vulnerable females (rape survivors, prisoners, young girls)?

It is great that you are here engaging. It is just a bit sad that this thread came on the back of a forum deletion which many here found very hard. And that it came across as patronising. If a main trans forum got cancelled, my first thought would not be to find some trans women to explain in detail why I thought it was a good thing.

contactusdeletus
r/gendercritical was not a space you were welcome in. It was not a space intended for you. It was, in fact, specifically designed to offer an escape from your ideology, which many women find to be sexist by its very nature.

I don't think any trans people cared that it 'wasn't for us' or 'wanted in', but a lot of us did take exception to being routinely described as child-grooming attention-seeking misogynistic deluded perverts trying to take over the world (Trans Women) or poor helpless impressionable confused lesbians (Trans Men).

Discussing sex-based oppression as it relates to natal females is one thing, what r/GC spent 99% of its energy doing was quite another.

The distinction between 'idealogy' and 'people' was not at all distinct, and that's putting it mildly.

r/GC, as well as r/itsafetish and r/LGBdroptheT deserve all they get.

Going to repeat this...

So OP, if you think that this was just a normal moderation decision with the group not following the rules, OK.

But you do support open debate in principle?

You're against "no platforming" people?

You don't have any problem with people disagreeing with "TWAW"? Arguing against that? Debate is healthy?

Regardless of what happened on Reddit, do you think that there are other cases of people being unfairly silenced?

@MadBadDaddy

contactusdeletus r/gendercritical was not a space you were welcome in. It was not a space intended for you. It was, in fact, specifically designed to offer an escape from your ideology, which many women find to be sexist by its very nature.

I don't think any trans people cared that it 'wasn't for us' or 'wanted in', but a lot of us did take exception to being routinely described as child-grooming attention-seeking misogynistic deluded perverts trying to take over the world (Trans Women) or poor helpless impressionable confused lesbians (Trans Men).

Discussing sex-based oppression as it relates to natal females is one thing, what r/GC spent 99% of its energy doing was quite another.

The distinction between 'idealogy' and 'people' was not at all distinct, and that's putting it mildly.

r/GC, as well as r/itsafetish and r/LGBdroptheT deserve all they get.

So you want to police what women say. Tough! The more you try to shut us up, the more we speak out and the more others become aware of your attempt to silence women. It must really frustrate you that women won’t do as they’re told.

Why is it a case of "silencing women"
Surely if there's hateful shit being posted it doesn't matter a toss what sex you are

@madbaddaddy Thanks for the reply and for confirming your stance on the rape subs. I hope you'll see that Mumsnet is a platform containing multiple points of view, just as Reddit is.

I don't think you or trans people and their supporters in general are responsible for 'suck my dick' stuff or 'cotton ceiling' stuff and I know many trans people deplore that stuff too. For the most part, women and trans people are terrified of violent men - it's something we have in common and something (in my opinion) we should work together on.

I will forever think that Reddit HQ fucked up here though, and that the maintenance of the rape subs is grotesque and deeply revealing of their misogyny.

You're right, no-ones ever asked me suck anything online. I have mixed feelings on that.

....uh okay.

Why aren't you campaigning and organising for the rape and violence threads to be taken down? As you are so against people saying hateful things? Don't you think they are hateful?

PacificState & others

Thank you for your understanding comments

the maintenance of the rape subs is grotesque and deeply revealing of their misogyny.

Having just googled around "reddit rape subs" and "Reddit misogyny" you'll get no argument from me. I just wish I hadn't just eaten a big meal. I can see how any woman would feel unfairly targeted if all they had to go on was the headline of "Reddit bans r/GC"

I personally never reported or campaigned for their removal but evidently many people did and maybe it was a case of the squeaky wheel getting the oil.

However, I still don't think it was a wrong move on Reddit's part. "whataboutery" doesn't justify any hateful behaviour.

@picklemewalnuts

Why aren't you campaigning and organising for the rape and violence threads to be taken down? As you are so against people saying hateful things? Don't you think they are hateful?

It's a fair comment and I suppose the only honest answer is that I only act in furtherance of my own direct self-interest and my own little world. I of course knew the 'darker' side of Reddit existed but never went there. There was a time when the larger 'edgy' subs like r/watchpeopledie and r/TheDonald would make it to the front page and I never felt like going there either. From what I understand it used to be a lot worse.

Having looked into it a little earlier on (see above) I could see a can of worms that I simply don't think I've got the stomach to sift through. Is a horrible sub sincere or ironic? Hateful or edgy? Is it describing real people/events or fantasies/kinks? Also it is an American site where 'free speech' is almost an article of faith. I've read the words of some of those that do campaign and challenge the hypocrisies at a systemic level and they have my admiration and respect.

So, ashamed as I am to say it, I wimp out. I try to keep my own little corner free of weeds as I've described above, I'll sign a petition or upvote a post, but I guess that's all. I'm a single-issue SJW

Having been a regular of Gender Critical for many years, I think the sub was about as hateful as Mumsnet- which is to say it wasn't.I can see why someone wouldn't like it if they had a different theory about gender.

So, ashamed as I am to say it, I wimp out. I try to keep my own little corner free of weeds as I've described above, I'll sign a petition or upvote a post, but I guess that's all

I know what you mean

Sometimes I don’t even sign the petition

It’s shameful really