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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling responds to pathetic Labour MP

306 replies

BaronessSnippyPantsofCroneArmy · 28/06/2020 16:59

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1277263814552100866?s=20

Bloody good woman

OP posts:
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13
Thelnebriati · 29/06/2020 14:12

He doesn't have to say anything about trans rights at all just like he didn't have to publicly support self ID or sign any pledge.

I mean its really telling that the leader of a main political party cannot come out in support of the current law, which affects the rights of 50% of the population.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/06/2020 14:50

At the very least it gives more time to shine more sunlight on the false laws preached by stonewall and try to halt the insidious creep into schools of an ideology the majority do not accept.

RedToothBrush · 29/06/2020 15:13

He doesn't have to say anything about trans rights at all just like he didn't have to publicly support self ID or sign any pledge.

Starmer was fighting an internal election at the time, amongst Labour members which gave a high proportion of TWAW advocates. It was an issue that was regarded important internally so he had to 'signal to the virtous' that he had a position on this.

If he hadn't would he have won the election as leader?

He may not have done.

Now the election is done, he could be a proper politician and go back on that - but he won't want to be seen to do an about face (if he indeed intends to do one which he may not) otherwise his political opponents will punish him for it. He has now started to create a situation where he could do eventually do a 'considered uturn' if he so chose. He could, equally, decide to double down. This is why keeping pressure up now is important.

Starmer has to try to balance the demands he has internally within the party with the demands of the general public which are very different to the Labour Party membership which is no longer particularly representative of wider public opinion.

I mean its really telling that the leader of a main political party cannot come out in support of the current law, which affects the rights of 50% of the population.

As it stands this is why the piggy backing of trans issues with lgb issues is hugely important.

There is widespread support for LGB rights amongst the population - both amongst Labour and Conservative voters. Views on LGB issues are aligned between the general population and party memberships.

As such until LGB issues are unpicked and separated from the T we will see this problem ongoing to a degree. The Conservatives have more leeway on this, but only to a point. (Its interesting to see trans issues trying to now piggy back BLM issues. It will be interesting to see how this partnership goes.)

The problem for women is their issues aren't critically important to either party. They are a second thought. Women's inherent problem is economic. As they are more vulnerable to economic pressures, they support more state intervention as a safety net than men do. This ultimately puts them in a position where its a choice between the least worst option when it comes to economics and the trans issue. At present the Conservatives aren't reliant on the female vote and women favour Labour because they support economic policy which harms them least. Labour need to be attracting more older males to win an election and can gamble that they can afford to take women voters for granted.

This naturally sucks, but unfortunately is a dynamic we have to recognise and act tactically upon. See my point about keeping up pressure.

I don't know how committed Starmer is to either women's rights or the trans issue. It seems its not his priority full stop. That might be depressing HOWEVER as it stands he has little actual power either anyway. He's not in government and his priority is asserting himself as labour leader to get to a position where his opinion influences the unions (he doesn't currently have that).

Johnson is preoccupied and its not a priority for him either.

So we have a few years of limbo to work in I suspect. This works to the favour of women as far as I can see, as long as we keep the pressure up. There are several issues on the verge of a legal challenge and on the verge of a potential scandal. And we have the LGB Alliance growing as an organisation.

I don't read Starmers actions as pro-trans. I don't read them as pro-woman either. But this doesn't mean it doesn't work for women either. That's up to us to work on.

I see an opportunity whether by accident or design and a window of opportunity before Starmer is ultimately forced to show his hand. And that is thanks to Starmer.

NeurotrashWarrior · 29/06/2020 15:18

Wot Red said. ^

NeurotrashWarrior · 29/06/2020 15:18

👏

NeurotrashWarrior · 29/06/2020 15:19

It's not great, we want clear answers, he can't, yet.

We support the people who are, such as Jk.

Impatiens · 29/06/2020 15:47

Agree with RedToothBrush and it's good to see some positivity in your posts! Smile

noblegiraffe · 29/06/2020 15:50

People are hoping that he will be headed in our favour, but actually from what he has said in the past, this doesn’t look to be the case. That he is now trying to be all things to all people doesn’t mean that he’s moving on this, merely that he’s trying not to piss off anyone who has this issue near the top of their agenda.

There’s nothing to suggest from what he has said that he is biding his time, and everything to suggest that he is trying to keep the lid firmly closed on Schrödinger’s Cat.

Let’s face it, the only reason people are still hoping is because the other option is Boris Johnson.

teawamutu · 29/06/2020 16:00

Let’s face it, the only reason people are still hoping is because the other option is Boris Johnson.

True. What KS needs to understand - and what I think Labour have failed to understand till now - is that they are exactly that; an option, and we have others.

I don't owe Labour my vote because they're the Good Guys. And if they persist in this I will vote the other way.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/06/2020 16:17

@Alsohuman

Owen Jones screenshots for you

JK Rowling responds to pathetic Labour MP
JK Rowling responds to pathetic Labour MP
Langbannedforsafeguardingkids · 29/06/2020 16:22

In the last election, I spoiled my ballot (by writing Adult Human Female - I'd love to know how many did the same) because I felt I couldn't vote for Labour or Tory. If I'd been forced to choose it would have been Tory though, even though I think they're pretty useless / awful, due to Labour's absolute commitment to throwing away my daughter's rights.

I am naturally a Labour / left voter. But I have two daughters. Their safety trumps all else and TRA ideology fundamentally threatens their safety. I'm so shocked about the huge safeguarding failures that seem to have largely flown under the radar like Challenor in the Greens. Any political party that doesn't do safeguarding properly is a definite no, and it seems that safeguarding failures and a willingness to throw away women's rights go hand in hand. I think I've probably become a single issue voter.

Justhadathought · 29/06/2020 16:23

Owen Jones correctly identifies trans rights as an 'article of faith'. nothing to do with actual, measurable reality

I wonder whether it has ever crossed his mind, just once, that maybe he should campaign for third spaces? I suspect not. The total lack of reason, and unbending faithfulness to ideological articles of faith is all one way.

I note that commentators such as he have now resorted to calling women who want to protect their own spaces, services and sports a " cult". Does he not understand what a cult is? It is the above.

RedToothBrush · 29/06/2020 16:24

There’s nothing to suggest from what he has said that he is biding his time, and everything to suggest that he is trying to keep the lid firmly closed on Schrödinger’s Cat.

Let’s face it, the only reason people are still hoping is because the other option is Boris Johnson.

Is the other option Boris Johnson?

  1. We have a long time until an election.
  2. There is no guarentee it will be Johnson he faces. Its likely but Johnson has his own internal problems and problems with the public to contend with before then.
  3. The world is looking very uncertain right now. Things are going to change a lot in that time. It makes sense for Starmer to hedge his bets for the time being where he can.
  4. Labour has an 'older man problem' not a 'women problem'. There are not a significant number of extra votes to be won from pushing too hard on women's rights at the moment. Sadly.

There is nothing from what he has said that he is biding his time. He has, however, made the point that trans rights are also not his immediate priority though by saying we need a debate. He's shoved it down the agenda list rather than allowing it to be near the top.

Personally I'll take 'keeping the lid firmly closed on Schrondinger's Cat' for the time being over a mindless TWAW for strategic reasons.

I haven't, in the last 4 years, tended to live in blind hope when it comes to politics and political promises. Indeed I've tended to firmly warn against it.

The earth is moving in terms of what is happening politically and how the culture war is developing.

I think we will see a huge clash in the US in November which may have massive ramifications world wide (especially in the context of the end of the UK's transition from the EU at the end of December) which will bring parts of the culture war to a real head.

The big issue with the culture war is how party activists are not aligned with the priorities of the wider public and this is important. Fractures only are sustainable to a point, at which they become full on confrontations.

Thats the direction of travel. Bricks being thrown.

I do think that whatever Starmer believes he is aware of the looming culture war crisis and how the current government is trying to set traps along those lines and he needs to do his best to avoid them rather than outwardly and publically endorse them. His background does serve him in this sense.

It may not work to our favour in the long term. Starmer might work against women's interests.

However I see his current position as one that means we have some breathing space and some time to organise and campaign before Labour policy is set in stone before the next election.

This isn't making the assumption that Starmer is on our side. Its making the assumption and taking positives from the fact that he's not actively trying to completely shut women down either though.

As I say: The Overton Window is shifting in the right direction.

Langbannedforsafeguardingkids · 29/06/2020 16:26

Aargh, Owen Jones. Gives me the rage.

Even if his stats were true - THEY'RE NOT - that's still 28% of women NOT ok with male bodies in women's spaces and 28% of 51% of the population still outnumbers the number of transpeople HUGELY. Why is taking away their rights preferable to creating third spaces which allow everyone dignity, safety and privacy?

The utter disregard for women is so shockingly blatant.

Alsohuman · 29/06/2020 16:27

There’s nothing to suggest from what he has said that he is biding his time

Of course there isn’t, he’s got more sense than to reveal his hand at such an early stage.

Thank you for the screenshots @Ereshkigalangcleg, that’s really kind of you. I think the esteemed Mr Jones overestimates the level of concern in the young population about trans issues. Comes from never looking outside your echo chamber I guess.

noblegiraffe · 29/06/2020 16:29

Is the other option Boris Johnson?

Or whoever else slides into Number 10 in the meantime. But the Tories have said they will protect the status quo for women.

Lib Dems said there’s no place for GC women in their party as have Greens. I think that’s it on my local ballot paper.

FloralBunting · 29/06/2020 16:36

Article of faith?

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

TheSingingKettle49 · 29/06/2020 17:55

I’ve never voted Tory in my life and never thought I would, but if it comes to it I will vote Tory on this single issue, and the sad thing is that as a white middle class woman who doesn’t get benefits my life won’t be particularly affected under a Tory government, I’ll still own my house and be able to afford food and clothes.

Labour need to wake up and see that if the general public don’t like them they won’t get into power, but the whole Corbyn fiasco showed us they’d rather stick to their ideas than be in power.

justanotherneighinparadise · 29/06/2020 22:40

I’ve just been watching some Triggernometry videos on YouTube and I think my favourite so far is Zuby discussing BLM. However at 35 mins he discusses JKR and is just so succinct and clear about her stance that it was so bloody refreshing. I’d recommend a look at the whole video if anyone has an hour spare as he’s very very good.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/06/2020 01:06

Zuby is always great on this issue. Will have a look.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/06/2020 06:39

i agree with 'wait and see' on keir starmer.

its better to wait for the tra's movement to burn itself out - which it will do- than to take on another battle which at this moment in time would be v nasty.

i saw ben bradshaw mp chiding david arranovitch 'have you spent time listening to transpeople'? arrogant fecker.

justanotherneighinparadise · 30/06/2020 07:41

I can’t wait until Owen Jones steps out of his very tight far left line and gets eaten by its own. I hope he’s got his flail ready to whip himself naked down the street when he messes up.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 30/06/2020 07:52

@Doyoumind

So Stephen King has now decided TWAW Hmm
There is no way he really believes this or he wouldn’t have tweeted his support for JKR in the first place. He’s just a pathetic coward who has made a U turn because of the backlash from the TRAs. By doing so, he’s drawn more negative attention to JKR. Instead of sharing the abuse, he’s redirected his to her. Disgusting man.
Tonz · 30/06/2020 08:20

Yeah really disappointed in Stephen King. He doesn't share JKRs courage. I'm glad she's not backing down. The abuse is terrible and she's not even transphobic. I'd have her on our side over absolutely anybody. Extremely classy lady.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/06/2020 08:28

TBF, I think that first step can be extremely difficult. It must be painful to know that you are about to go from much loved icon to hate figure and it takes guts and even more so masses of confidence in your ideas and ability to express them, to do it.
We know that JKR had a 'middled aged moment' a couple of years ago. I expect Stephen King to be back eventually.