Glinner

[Newjobnewstart]

Has been suspended from twitter. He has been a great ally - as you can imagine there is a bit of a party going on over there.

I'm not interested in participating in his circus. And I know I'm not alone

Lots of people aren’t interested...but they’ve managed to resist saying ‘if that poster I don’t like posts a lot I’m leaving mumsnet’

[quote bakingberry]@ShyPhilosopher

I couldn't agree more. Feminism is being used as a cover for the anti trans movement and tarring is all with the same brush. I feel like we've became this mans puppet. [/quote]
Perhaps you ought to develop your own critical thinking, in that case.

I have absolutely no idea why transactivists on Twitter think that Feminism has a 'leader', or that it's Graham.

They don't seem to be able to understand that individual women have individual thoughts.

Last week it was Julie bindle being the head of some underground lesbian cult.

It's risible. 🤣

I feel like we've became this mans puppet

Go on then - give us an example of women here doing something at Glinners behest that they wouldn't have done anyway? I can't say I've detected any great change on FWR due to his semi-occasional contributions here.

Last week it was Julie bindle being the head of some underground lesbian cult.

It was a secret lesbian international bride-trafficking ring, wasn't it?

@AskDan

Shyphilosopher - you say let's be descent to fellow human beings.

It is just another way of saying "be kind" and by that you really mean "prioritise the men".

We live in an age where woman has become a dirty word and replaced by terms such as menstrator. How can we stand up for our rights if we cant name ourselves.

I am genuinely saddened that suggesting being decent to fellow human beings even needs defending. It isn't the "be kind" nonsense, as that was pure virtue signalling. It isn't about prioritising men either, as the term trans does not only apply to males. "Woman" has not become a dirty word. It's just some people ask for them to also be acknowledged in addition to women.

Treating fellow human beings with decency is about realising you do not have to push another minority down in order to maintain your rights. It is not just about some feminists needing to take a step back from the accusations of grooming to the trans community, but also about those trans rights supporters who come out with misogynistic statements (esp. death or rape threats) also needing to take a breather. I get that both side are genuinely scared, as they know what it is like to be abused and want to escape from that situation. It doesn't stop these actions being harmful to a large number of people though.

@nauticant

The "them" is trans activists.

That's a huge part of the problem though. It might just be intended for some trans activists who are undoubtedly acting out of order, but the language used is then harmful to all trans people. It therefore isn't just against trans activists.

You should also consider restricting posting access to FWR as you do for the Sex topic.

Sorry, not a subject I use. Can anyone give me a quick overview of how this works?

Many thanks

Shy - I think you need to.read back your own words to yourself. You said that trans rights supporters who make death threats need to take a breather.

So men (let's be honest, they are the ones making death threats) who threaten women with death just need to take a breather and calm down a bit?

No action should be taken against him? Taking a deep breath is enough is it?

but the language used is then harmful to all trans people.

Could you please give some specifics?

Personally, I‘m interested in defending spaces and services for female people (sex in U.K. law is chromosomes, gonads, gametes and genitals). What language can I use that pushes back against trans activists, that seek to remove my legal right to those spaces and services whilst not not using language that is harmful to all trans people?

Oh, aye. Anyone out there making death or rape threats, please could you just take a chill pill and calm down a bit? Ta.

We'll stop calling out MAPs and safeguarding issues, because obviously that's equivalent to making death threats.

Really, AskDan, we need to have some compassion for all the men making death/rape threats. I mean, now look what we've gone and made them do? They were all so NICE beforehand.

Treating fellow human beings with decency is about realising you do not have to push another minority down in order to maintain your rights. .... those trans rights supporters who come out with misogynistic statements (esp. death or rape threats) also needing to take a breather.

How’d this go down on Twitter when you admonished suggested this to them?

I’m agog.

@Binglebong

You should also consider restricting posting access to FWR as you do for the Sex topic.

Sorry, not a subject I use. Can anyone give me a quick overview of how this works?

Many thanks

I just want to clarify that i dont use the subject either!

Just in case one of my children spots this 😀

As far i know Bingle you can only post on the Sex board if you have been on mumsnet for over three months..seems to work but no idea of the exact ins and outs

(Couldnt resist)

@Binglebong

You should also consider restricting posting access to FWR as you do for the Sex topic.

Sorry, not a subject I use. Can anyone give me a quick overview of how this works?

Many thanks

You need to be a MN member for 90 days before you can post on the sex threads because well, wet keyboards are dangerous 🤢

So, maybe FWR as it’s a powder keg conversation starter and opportunists like to either dump and run or dump and screenshot (for shits and giggles) newbies should have a holding period of say 24 hours after reg’ing to post.

Would save the mods the mire and FWR the harharhar screenshots.

Scrimpshaw - next time someone threatens my life, I will stop to wonder what trauma they have been through, because that is the decent thing to do.

@Doyoumind

Do you really want the legal definition of sex to be erased Baking and Shy? It isn't just about where people go to the toilet. The TRAs want you to think that because it makes it easier for them to convince you.

Feminism is about females and I will always believe that.

First of all, thank you for responding calmly and not being accusatory. I appreciate this subject matter is heated & genuinely appreciate being able to discuss it rather than the shouting match that often occurs.

This is a very important debate for me, as it will be most (if not all) people here, as it is about our children's future. 3 of my 4 children are female. 2 of my children are autistic, which brings with it a higher likelihood of gender identity difficulties. This is something my husband and I have therefore been carefully traversing. I therefore critically read the arguments on both sides of the debate. I don't want female rights to be rescinded. I have suffered both sexual abuse and domestic violence and appreciate how essential services are for protecting women. As I mix in the autistic community, I have a lot of friends who are trans &/or non-binary. I know what abuse you go regularly go through and all of this has riled up a great deal more hatred than usual towards them. I don't think it is right that they should have their rights taken from them either.

There has to be a compromise. As long as heated arguments continue though, especially ones which include threats of violence or accusations of grooming, I cannot see that being possible.

RufustheRowlingReindeer “...as far as I know...”

Baaahahahaha you’re ace

Shy, you think these men making threats and trying to harm women and children are scared? We are not talking about Hayley Cropper here, or Hinge and Bracket! We are talking about abusive men who are using this ideology, absolutely deliberately, to strip women of the rights that we NEED because of men's abuse and exploitation of our bodies throughout millennia. Wake up ffs.

No one is taking rights away from trans people. If you are talking about men no longer being welcomed into women's spaces, they never had the right to be there in the first place.

Treating fellow human beings with decency is about realising you do not have to push another minority down in order to maintain your rights

women aren't a minority for heaven's sake

I see we're being treated to the 'balanced view' today. how super

Treating fellow human beings with decency is about realising you do not have to push another minority down in order to maintain your rights.

Maybe try going and lecturing the trans activists about that (the fact women are a majority rather than a minority actually makes trampling on our rights worse, if you stop to think about it). Tell them to treat women and girls with some basic decency. Go on - see how that pans out.

I don't think it is right that they should have their rights taken from them either.

What rights are being taken? The proposed changes to the GRA have been scrapped (or perhaps amended, no one actually knows yet) and the government has said they will reiterate and ensure that the current rights of female people are upheld.

Nothing is being rolled back, the current law is simply being explained in a clearer manner.

As long as heated arguments continue though, especially ones which include threats of violence or accusations of grooming

ah. threatening violence is as bad as noticing and naming grooming behaviour?

good to know

i think your equivalences are a bit off if I may say so

@IHeartSusanDey

Shy, you think these men making threats and trying to harm women and children are scared? We are not talking about Hayley Cropper here, or Hinge and Bracket! We are talking about abusive men who are using this ideology, absolutely deliberately, to strip women of the rights that we NEED because of men's abuse and exploitation of our bodies throughout millennia. Wake up ffs.

Why would a man need to "pretend" to be a woman to achieve this? They already do it. They don't need to take that step.

The threats are out of order. Same as accusing trans people of harming children and being groomers is completely out of order. This increases the hate crimes against that community and genuinely leaves them fearing for their life. Both sides need to stop.

I don't think it is right that they should have their rights taken from them either.

They aren't.

Lobby groups like Stonewall and mermaids were campaigning to have the GRA reformed, so that the criteria for being legally, that's legally, the opposite sex were scrapped. And to make it an administrative exercise.

Places getting ahead of the law has resulted in an absolute quagmire of safeguarding failures.

So all that has happened is the government has said those changes will not be made. The law is staying as it is. No rights are being rolled back by women.