Glinner

[Newjobnewstart]

Has been suspended from twitter. He has been a great ally - as you can imagine there is a bit of a party going on over there.

thank you for responding calmly and not being accusatory

Targeting trans women with abuse, accusing them of grooming, is using the same rhetoric that was used about gay people just a few decades ago. It is not defending women's human rights. If anything, it is causing more of a backlash against feminists, as many are getting tarred with the same transphobic brush.

This is an absolute mis-representation of what Glinner has said and what feminists have said. I don't see that you are "carefully traversing" anything here at all - you do genuinely seem to be all over the place.

On one hand saying, Trans women have been allowed in female changing rooms, toilets etc for around a decade. There hasn't been a spike in crimes due to this, in fact most people didn't even realise it was already happening and then saying you appreciate how essential services are for protecting women. Well, thing is, self-ID changes things considerably and weakens our ability to safeguard our places, not just against assault, but intimidation, voyeurism, and for our dignity and privacy. Unisex changing rooms are less safe. Offending rates for transwomen are unsurprisingly no different from other men.

My advice to you is So please, step away from posting about this issue for a while. Mis-representing what people have been saying is utterly unfair and as long as you keep doing that, then there won't be a compromise.

good heavens

you don't want people to notice or name grooming behaviour @ShyPhilosopher ? why on earth not?

As an aside, it’s nice that the Sex board is still called...Sex. I doubt its regulars would appreciate it being called the G-word.

Same as accusing trans people of harming children and being groomers is completely out of order.

I honestly don't care if people are finding that word uncomfortable.

What else do you call it? When children are being told they must include the opposite sex in their friendship group or they may be guilty of a hate incident.

By the bloody CPS???

Or girls are singularly unable to get changed without a boy present?

Or being told to identify their inner brains on the basis of a spectrum with Cinderella at one end and GI Joe at the other?

And having their breasts removed on the back of this regressive ideology?

The threats are out of order. Same as accusing trans people of harming children

see, i would say trans ideology harms children. if i were a religious woman I would believe that there was a special place reserved in hell for the founders and cheerleaders at Mermaids, for the things they have encouraged children to do to their bodies and minds

none of them are trans afaik

Shy, with Self ID these men do not need to pretend to be women. That's the whole point and why abusive men are pushing for this. They can just walk in as they are with a shirt and tie on and no one can challenge them if they say they are a woman today.

And why on earth, if we KNOW that men will abuse women and children as you said yourself, should we even think about removing safeguards to make it fucking easy for them??

Why would a man need to "pretend" to be a woman to achieve this? They already do it. They don't need to take that step.

Oh God. Men abuse women so let's make it easier. Lets make it so that any man has access to women at their most vulnerable if they want. And lets threaten anyone who says no to that.

To save me from replying to all of the bad faith posts individually, here's one response:
Look at what you're writing, you're not even making any sense. You are insisting on calling trans women "men". You are talking about men pretending to be women just so they can do what you claim men always do, without even stopping to question why they'd even need to bother with that step. Worst of all, you are accusing them of all being child abusers. That is just as disgusting as the rape & death threats - but you are so blinded by hatred you just can't see it. I now realise someone calmly talking cannot cut through that red mist. I apologise for assuming otherwise.

Groan Rufus, that was painful! Thanks to you and Humpty for the explanation.

It sounds like a good idea, although I would want at least a week holding. Maybe a minimum number of posts on other threads as well?

You honestly think calling men 'men' is worse than death and rape threats, @ShyPhilosopher? Really?

@ShyPhilosopher

To save me from replying to all of the bad faith posts individually, here's one response: Look at what you're writing, you're not even making any sense. You are insisting on calling trans women "men". You are talking about men pretending to be women just so they can do what you claim men always do, without even stopping to question why they'd even need to bother with that step. Worst of all, you are accusing them of all being child abusers. That is just as disgusting as the rape & death threats - but you are so blinded by hatred you just can't see it. I now realise someone calmly talking cannot cut through that red mist. I apologise for assuming otherwise.

This is misrepresentation.

I have very carefully used ‘Male’ and ‘Female’ and cited the U.K. legal position on separating the two.

Nowhere did I use man or woman. Yet you are still refusing to answer.

I have an ASD child too, and a stepchild who has had a cross sex identity for a year.

The one who has been identifying as a boy will still need to use legal rights for female people if they say, have a baby and need maternity leave. Lots of transmen do.

bad faith posts

You are insisting on calling trans women "men"

cos they are. unless you can offer a definition of 'man' and 'woman' that encompasses members of the opposite sex? I quite enjoy that game...

Worst of all, you are accusing them of all being child abusers

who did that then? sounds like a nasty sweeping generalisation. MNHQ get quite hot under the collar about those

That is just as disgusting as the rape & death threats

calling someone names is as bad as threatening to rape them? I think we need to talk about the things you consider equivalent.....

Shy, you are the only one being horribly unkind here. To say that men are women is a slap in the face to every single girl and woman on the planet who has suffered oppression on account of men's exploitation and abuse of our female sexed bodies. These men are NOT women and I for one will never be compelled to lie that they are. As Alessandra always says, why would I believe the words of a man over my own eyes?

They already do it.

In terms of safeguarding that's usually an argument to be more vigilant and apply more controls, not to relax things.

Worst of all, you are accusing them of all being child abusers.

Why are you lying?

That is just as disgusting as the rape & death threats

Don't be stupid.

but you are so blinded by hatred you just can't see it.

Huh?!

What on earth are you talking about, shyphilospher? Really. Who is saying all transwomen are child abusers?
Cut and paste and report please.

They are men. 🙄

@ShyPhilosopher

To save me from replying to all of the bad faith posts individually, here's one response: Look at what you're writing, you're not even making any sense. You are insisting on calling trans women "men". You are talking about men pretending to be women just so they can do what you claim men always do, without even stopping to question why they'd even need to bother with that step. Worst of all, you are accusing them of all being child abusers. That is just as disgusting as the rape & death threats - but you are so blinded by hatred you just can't see it. I now realise someone calmly talking cannot cut through that red mist. I apologise for assuming otherwise.

no one has said they all are. But some are.

Look at it this way: it is well know that people have trained for years or given up a lot of time so that they can access children. Becoming teachers, scout leaders, priests and a while load more things. It's taken years and they do it. Do you really think they won't sign a piece of paper that means they have to change nothing about themself to get close to women and children. Oh no wait, with self ID no piece of paper is needed.

Do you truly being that there are no predatory people claiming to be trans?

it is causing more of a backlash against feminists

ShyPhilosopher
You seem very keen on framing this issue in a particular way. You seem very keen to pretend that only radical 'feminists' are concerned about women's rights being relinquished as their sex class is dismantled. Au contraire. The radical position is that the term women applies to anyone who feels like one. Even if they are an anatomical male. Furthermore, the tactics used by some of the most vocal radicals include #no platforming and #no debate. Freedom of speech and thought is facing an existential threat from radicals who want to silence any dissent. It is profoundly disingenuous to pretend that trans 'rights' don't pose a threat to women's rights when the extremists of the trans movement want to take a battering ram to sex segregated spaces. Do you believe trans women should participate in women's sports? Be housed in women's prisons? Do you think a 15 year old girl who says she is trans should be put on a medical flight path to hormones and surgery? Do you think it's acceptable that an Oxford historian requires bodyguards because trans activists don't like her historical research? Do you think it's acceptable that women who question this are subjected to relentless misogynistic abuse? I don't. Neither do I find disingenuous attempts to reframe and recast this 'debate' by the use of false equivalence, logical fallacies and misrepresentation remotely persuasive.

Why always the misrepresentation? I don't believe trans = pervert, rapist, abuser for a minute and no one here does. Do I believe some males are perverts, rapists and abusers? Yes, because it is indesputable. Safeguarding exists for a good reason and needs to stay in place.

I don't really care how someone dresses or identifies. It's largely none of my business and I would like them to live happy and fulfilling lives free from discrimination. But women's issues are my business and affect me and I will stand up for my rights as a female.

Perfectly put Doyoumind

That's just all a load of bunkum SkyPhilosopher.

I wonder what the great Bunbury would have to say about it.

@ShyPhilosopher
"Woman" has not become a dirty word.

I wish that were true but it isnt. 'Woman' has become an unspeakable word, along with 'lesbian'.
Just this week, a group for women with endometriosis has announced it will use 'gender neutral;' language instead of sexed biological terms, and a petitioon asking the Body shop to call us 'women' and not 'menstruators' was removed from Change.org

@ShyPhilosopher

To save me from replying to all of the bad faith posts individually, here's one response: Look at what you're writing, you're not even making any sense. You are insisting on calling trans women "men". You are talking about men pretending to be women just so they can do what you claim men always do, without even stopping to question why they'd even need to bother with that step. Worst of all, you are accusing them of all being child abusers. That is just as disgusting as the rape & death threats - but you are so blinded by hatred you just can't see it. I now realise someone calmly talking cannot cut through that red mist. I apologise for assuming otherwise.

And there it is.

Women are saying no.

No.

If you don't understand the words boundaries, consent, men and women, you still need to understand that word.

No.

Well, Twitter is dead anyway, I really think so. To most people it has about as much actual impact on their lives as TikTok..maybe less!

Thank you for speaking up though@glinner, it means more than it should, given how very very few men have spoken up for the rights of women and the safeguarding of children.
And when I say the rights of women I mean the right to not have to be shut in with men in women's prisons, or to be able to access womens's refuges away from men.

When I say the safeguarding of children I mean the protection of the rights of girls to have separate facilities to boys, and vice versa. Also the right to be safe from being told their bodies are "wrong" because they like things that don't fit gender stereotypes.

Anyone who thinks that safeguarding vulnerable women and children is anything "phobic" is, at this point, either an idiot or something much much worse.

I am a bit disappointed not to have received a dick pic though.

shy

Please point out where someone on here called ALL transpeople child abusers

Personally i think that is an outright lie and a perfect example of ‘bad faith’ posting ...and certainly not ‘talking calmly’