PCs suspended over photos of murder scene

[Lettera]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53185177

Men. They never disappoint.

There have been a couple of horrible attacks local to me in the last 2 days. They haven't even made the local news. There is something very unpleasant going on. I know one of the victims. They said the police couldn't have been less interested.

Thanks @DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong and @truthisarevolutionaryact. I appreciate your replies.

Justhadathought policing gatherings is irrelevant to this.

Yes, we have terrible problems of violent crimes,gangs etc in London much of which results directly from young people not trusting the police so 'sorting things out' amongst themselves.

And please don't play the 'this happens to white people too' game.

Yes of course police prejudice and brutality happen to white working class people as well.

It's the fact that the black community are disproportionately targeted that makes racism relevant to these discussions.

Have just read the link to the Mail article, written AT THE TIME reporting screams.

And no link was made to the reports of the missing women?

Have no idea of the Police IT system but you would have throughts reports of screams in a specific area and then a report of 2 mising women in the same are would have warranted a response by the police!

And yet the boyfriend of one of the woman was the only one to go and search.

A petition has been started by a relative. Will post in the petition section of MN as I dont want this thread to be deleted.

Dreadful for all the reasons eloquently stated by PPs. Poor, poor women and their family.

On the issue of the police becoming "de-sensitised" - are there services available to them to address the point at which their stress becomes so great they can no longer do their jobs effectively from both a legal and moral perspective? Genuinely curious.

And in the interests of addressing the institutional biases observed so often, do they regularly have sessions to determine they are still psychologically fit for duty?

CheshireChav
I used to feel very uncomfortable at what I saw as snarky / angry / sometimes aggressive, easy to characterise as 'man hating' comments on this board. But sticking around I understood that what I was often looking at were uncompromising and challenging ideas - often uncomfortable but challenging an orthodoxy - and I learnt so much. Especially that the repeated demands that women be kind, accepting and keep quiet about perceived injustice was holding women back in every sphere. It's been a real education on here.
And this awful case deserves sceptical challenge.

Stumbled in. Depending on the density of the area, screams and missing persons may not be linked. It’s down to the call taker to make the link based on knowledge of what else is coming in. Reports of screams is very common. It’s down to savvy of the call taker. In a smallish provincial force there may be a thousand plus live incidents at any given time.

In regards to desensitisation and institutional bias - dream on. Ignoring phenomena is desirable.

There have been a couple of horrible attacks local to me in the last 2 days. They haven't even made the local news. There is something very unpleasant going on. I know one of the victims. They said the police couldn't have been less interested.

I've been thinking that the media is suppressing more scary/sad news. Not sure if it's paranoia but they seems to be quite a focus on "feel good" stories & glossing over bad news. Not discounting the racism element but a stranger still on the loose who murdered 2 women at once is very unusual.

Of course, on reflection, the total balls up from start to finish of the Yorkshire Ripper case was also driven by police views on the victims status (or otherwise). But that was damn near half a century ago.

There was an excellent 3-part BBC documentary about how misogyny plagued the investigation. I seem to recall that "lessons would be learned".

I don't recall this getting much press attention; which is surprising given the dramatic fall in crime during lockdown. It would be newsworthy even for that.

ProfessorSlocombe yep half a century ago, but some women are still 'asking for it's.

The lack of press attention is notable given that the perpetrator hasn't been arrested, so there is still a person who killed two women at large.

No obvious motive. No sense that they knew the women who they killed. Actually, a very not typical case of violence towards women, yet it would seem not worthy of much police attention at all.

But yes of course, nothing to do with structural racism, sexism and classism in the police force.

Finfintytint I think the point is not so much whether the people taking the calls made the link between screams being reported and missing persons report as soon as the women were reported missing, but the fact that the women being reported missing was considered unimportant by the police, so no joining of dots was even initiated.

Even then, once the women had been found, I don't recall a huge public message to all those in the area who had heard/seen anything that evening to come forward.

It may be that the police recontacted all those who had called in to report screams etc the night before (likely not thousands in one specific residential area tbh), but it would be at odds with their general apathy towards finding this perpetrator.

Have no idea of the Police IT system but you would have throughts reports of screams in a specific area and then a report of 2 mising women in the same are would have warranted a response by the police!

And yet the boyfriend of one of the woman was the only one to go and search

The screaming did result in a police presence. The screaming happened at 1.08 p.m. on 7th June. It wasn't contemporaneous with their deaths which happened it's estimated at around 2a.m on 6th June.

@averysuitablegirl

It was a standard response ,or non response if you wish to have that view point , to a report of two adults not vulnerable who had not returned home.

It would have been the same response if it had been two white females , two white males or two whatever genders.

An adult is able to make unwise decisions which may include not returning home.

If police attended and put a search immediately for every adult that didn't come home then the police force would be even more stuffed than it is now.

I agree about the search thing

However I also don't doubt the mum's read of the lack of interest.

I am a white woman from a 'nice' area and the few times I have had to call the police (not my first option as I don't trust that they'll do anything) the response has been markedly different depending on where I called from etc. Very very interesting.

It's not one or the other. It's true that they won't send out a search party for this BUT the read from the mum is also valid and likely.

'
The screaming did result in a police presence. The screaming happened at 1.08 p.m. on 7th June. It wasn't contemporaneous with their deaths which happened it's estimated at around 2a.m on 6th June.'

The screaming was well after they were dead then. Given there had been two women murdered in an apparent random attack in the area the night before, and the man hasn't been caught, I'd hope that the police would turn out for that tbh.

Unless I have misread that post.

And please don't play the 'this happens to white people too' game

I think it is you gaming the situation, ironically......which is kind of inevitable when one sets up a confrontational, identity driven kind of politics.

The screaming was well after they were dead then. Given there had been two women murdered in an apparent random attack in the area the night before, and the man hasn't been caught, I'd hope that the police would turn out for that tbh

Unless I have misread that post

Yes you have completely misread it. I suggest you read the link to The Sun report.

I think you are right that the police should have responded. Women going missing should have had a priority given it was unusual for these particular women to be missing in these circumstances.

However, missing people, adults having a late night party , not wanting to be located is a common theme.
The police have made a massive assumption here based on all sorts....this time they have got it sadly wrong.

Yes, we have terrible problems of violent crimes,gangs etc in London much of which results directly from young people not trusting the police so 'sorting things out' amongst themselves

So it is never the responsibility, or fault, of the perpetrator of a crime or violent incident, it is always the fault of the police. That young black men stab each other in territorial gang warfare has nothing to do with them. They are mere pawns in a game of white privilege. Rubbish!

We each have personal responsibility, regardless of the colour of our skin, or our economic circumstance, and to suggest otherwise is actually a racist sentiment.

Justhadathought eh?

Acknowledging the role of structural prejudice is the opposite of identity driven politics.

Acknowledging the role of structural prejudice is the opposite of identity driven politics

No it isn't! In what way is it opposite? I'm not sure that even makes sense. I certainly cannot make any sense of it.

If you identify yourself primarily on the basis of your skin colour; your sex; your social or economic class; your neighbourhood; your nation; rather than on the content of your character.

What do you mean by 'structural prejudice', for a start? A lack of equal civil rights? Or do you mean assumptions based on stereotypes of particular groups?

Justhadathought the problem that the police cause amongst the gangs around me is the relentless targeting of (mainly) young men, particularly black men, from their early teens onwards.

This creates a situation in which a significant group of society simply don't trust the police. With anything, ever, under no circumstances.

So they address what they see as crime against them or their allies through reprisals.

Of course individual's behaviour is their own choice. Although individual police officers work within structures that are racist, sexist, classist and prejudiced to the core, and in which they know they'll be protected to the nth degree if, for example, someone dies within their custody, they're filmed tasering a 61 year old man whose flat the entered forcibly for 'drug related offences' (spoiler, there weren't any), grope a female suspect or witness, knock someone from the travelling community about a bit etc etc etc ad fucking infinitum.

So their actions are their responsibility, although the protection that they're afforded results from their position as police officers, rather than their race, class or sex.

Justhadathought the problem that the police cause amongst the gangs around me is the relentless targeting of (mainly) young men, particularly black men, from their early teens onwards

Yes, it is a vicious cycle, I get that...it is the same with any social grouping which has historically been the locus of under-privilege, lack of education, broken families, single parent families etc. This culture is not unique to young black men, although there certainly seems to be race specific ( & geographical) cultural patterns.

I'd say, ultimately, it is more about deprivation, lack of education and a value system which is deeply embedded, generational, and contrary to success in the mainstream culture.

I'd also say bit is about cultural masculinity and expectations of males in certain social cultures.