If someone identifies as an amputee they are given psychological help

[gardenbird48]

and steered away from modifying their body. They are not immediately affirmed, applauded by their friends and sent for surgery. BDD is the same.
I am really struggling with the difference between this and gender dysphoria, can anyone, esp with a psychiatry background explain please?

Sappho. I have changed your statement by one word below. Do you still agree with the statement and if you don't would you be kind enough to say why?

I disagree with the OP's suggestion that body dysphoria is a psychiatric disorder. It's a condition outside the individual's control, much like clinical depression.

Oh so were back to equating gender dysphoria with homosexuality.

So gender dysphoria requires nothing to be changed about a person, right? Like homosexuality? So why are you arguing that people are happier after surgery and they should be allowed to be treated by medical professionals for this condition that isn’t a medical problem and just an innate part of someone?

I am not critical of gender and gender expressions. I think diversity among humans is wonderful.

I have lots of trans friends, MTF, FTM and non binary and believe their gender identity is a fundamental part of themselves, the same as my sexual orientation of a fundamental part of who I am.

You use the word 'gender' a lot. Can you explain why you think this particular aspect of someones identity or expression is particularly important?

@SapphosRock

schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder... can all be treated with medication.

Gender dysphoria and homosexuality cannot.

Aren't people with gender dysphoria treated with hormones?

It's to do with the number of people reporting it and therefore, whether it's classified as a 'disorder' or not and even if it is, what is the treatment for that?

And there comes a point when there are so many reporting it, that it is no longer considered as a 'disorder'.

And i'm GC by the way, but don't think the OP was well thought out.

The whole idea of what is a psychiatric disorder and what is not is blurry around the edges. There are some core psychiatric illnesses like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression that everyone agrees on but a lot of 'behavioural' things like ADHD or personality disorder are on a spectrum so where you decide to put the cut off for abnormal is a matter of opinion. The US put it a lot lower than the UK generally (because Drs pay is directly linked to diagnosing and prescribing perhaps?) Other cultures recognise some mental illness presentations that aren't in Western text books and vice versa. Some things that were considered illnesses in the past have been quietly dropped or renamed eg hysteria and neurasthenia.

In case you think that general medicine is immune from this it is not. The question of when blood pressure is 'too high' and is called hypertension is a bit subjective. Various physical health conditions eg ME/ CFS, fibromyalgia, POTS are not universally recognised.

So in short the answer to why gender dysphoria and body dysmorphic disorder are treated differently is that society chooses to do so. There is no logically consistent reason for the difference but then there is no logical reason why dementia (a clearly biological brain disease) is a 'psychiatric' illness and CFS is a 'physical illness' although there are no consistent physical examination or investigation findings.

Certainly it has nothing to do with medication. Personality disorder is a mental disorder in DSM IV and ICD 10 and under the mental health act but there is no medication treatment. The treatment is psychotherapy.

Alcohol and drug addiction are specifically not mental disorders for which you can be detained under the mental health act although many people would think they should be.

These things really are not always very logically consistent.

@Theld ADHD isn't a behavioural disorder. It's a neurodevelopmental disorder like Autism or dyspraxia.

To a certain extent I do not think it matters whether transgenderism in any form is or is not a mental illness. Or even whether it is an innate and unchangeable state, like homosexuality, ASD our left-handedness are.

Mental illness or innate attributes may explain certain behaviour, but they never excuse behaviour, nor do they give licence to behave in ways that harm or endanger others.

So what is body dysphoria if it is not a psychiatric disorder?

disagree with the OP's suggestion that body dysphoria is a psychiatric disorder. It's a condition outside the individual's control, much like homosexuality.

WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCK?

I have body dysmorphia. As I keep telling you. I promise you it is very much a psychiatric disorder.

Have you actually lived with any of these friends? If not your opinion there is irrelevant. You see snapshot and edited versions of themselves.

Youd have the same opinion of my ex probably and you're the type of simp that would probably stand there arguing his motivations against the women whove had to live with the twat.

Body dysmorphia CAN be treated with medication and therapy sapphos I'm fucking having it. What on EARTH have you been drinking/sniffing?

But the observable measurable pathology of ADHD is behaviour and impulsivity and concentration are in a spectrum where a line is drawn to say over this threshold you have ADHD and under that you do not.

I am not saying behavioural in some pejorative way or as a put down. I mean it affects observed behaviour. I wasn't talking about the cause.

It's the same for schizophrenia and most other psychiatric (and many physical) illnesses. It's diagnosed on reported symptoms and observed behaviour there is no biological test. Many people would classify schizophrenia as a neurodevelopmental disorder too.

However schizophrenia and bipolar and psychotic mental illness are more binary. Most people do not experience psychosis at all whereas some degree of impulsivity and poor concentration are normal.

I am not saying ADHD is not a 'proper illness'. Hypertension is a spectrum disorder and everyone would agree it's a 'proper illness'

I am just saying that definitions of what is illness are not entirely objective for physical or mental health.

@NotBadConsidering

I had a patient who had conversion disorder: was convinced she was blind (in one eye) despite evidence to the contrary. She got a big badge, special glasses, got a stick even, everyone moved heaven and earth to help her. It was very rewarding for her. They were going to give her a dog, worth several thousand dollars, and I had to tell them not to. With therapy it improved. Stick and badge gone. Doesn’t even wear glasses. Once there was no gain from it the condition didn’t continue.

Conversion disorder is a fascinating parallel.

If you're familiar with conversion disorder ( more commonly referred to as functional neurological disorder in my part of the world) you will be aware that the best outcomes are generally achieved when the patient is not told 'it is all in your head', but where their experiences are respected and acknowledged as real and support is given according to the symptoms they experience.

Can you see any parallels there?

There is as much reason to call certain personality disorders neurodevelopmental as ADHD (evidence of heritability, evidence of neuropsychological deficits on testing) but no-one ever does because personality disorder is stigmatised.

What labels we choose to apply to illnesses are somewhat influenced by science but very largely determined by societal and cultural factors.

I do agree with OP a bit though in that if gender dysphoria is an illness involving overvalued false ideas about ones body then that ought to lead to psychotherapy to deal with those ideas rather than hormones and surgery.

The usefulness of any diagnostic label is a) to put similar things together to do research on to guide the right treatments and b) to give people an idea of prognosis and treatment options that are evidence based.

Suggestions- I guess your implication is that transgender people should not be told 'it's all in your head' and should have their experience acknowledged.
I actually do not think anyone at all disagrees with that.

The disagreement is that a) acknowledging the persons experience does not mean accepting that it is an objective reality and certainly not telling everyone else that they have to also accept that and b) the treatment of conversion disorder is therapy and is never deliberately blinding a person who thinks they are blind because 'they'll be happier when they have what they want'

applauds theld

NHS website. First thing it says on this subject:

Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), or body dysmorphia, is a mental health condition where a person...

Mental. Health. Condition.

Body dysmorphia CAN be treated with medication and therapy sapphos I'm fucking having it. What on EARTH have you been drinking/sniffing?

Yes I know. That's my point  I think you are confusing body dysmorphia with body dysphoria.

Body dysphoria cannot be treated with traditional psychiatric methods such as therapy and anti depressants.

Yes OldCrone people with gender dysphoria are sometimes treated with hormones. It is the only treatment that is known to alleviate dysphoria. So why should it be withheld from people who need it?

NotBadConsidering if you believe dysphoria is a mental illness not dissimilar to schizophrenia, would you withhold medication from a schizophrenic? If not why would you be opposed to trans people taking hormone medication?

@BaronessBrighterThanYou

Body dysmorphia = mental health condition. CAN be treated with therapy and anti-depressants. Tends to present in teenagers and young adults.

Body dysphoria = fundamental life long condition. CANNOT be treated with therapy and anti-depressants. Generally present from early childhood.

@SapphosRock no, I have explained several times. I actually suffer with these things and have clinical diagnosis of them.

Dysphoria is something someone with body dysmorphia suffers.

There is also the opposite. Euphoria. And when you treat body dysmorphia these two extremes go away.

PLEASE stop trying to educate me on conditions I have been diagnosed with for upwards of 10/15 years and which I'm still undergoing specialist treatment for just because I used disphoria/dysmorphia the wrong way around in a comment.

[quote SapphosRock]@BaronessBrighterThanYou

Body dysmorphia = mental health condition. CAN be treated with therapy and anti-depressants. Tends to present in teenagers and young adults.

Body dysphoria = fundamental life long condition. CANNOT be treated with therapy and anti-depressants. Generally present from early childhood. [/quote]
Can you provide a source for those definitions? My attempts at searching the two terms lead me to loads of sources where they either conflate the two, or compare body dysmorphia with gender dysphoria.

The NHS, for example, has entries for body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria, but nothing on body dysphoria.

OldCrone body dysphoria AKA gender dysphoria:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

As you can see it's not a mental health condition.