Why in 2020 are ours schools still instilling sexist rules

[NewYearNewTwatName]

inspired by the modesty shorts for wearing under skirts skirts thread.

I don't want to discuss the rights and wrongs on that, As I think parents and their daughters are just reacting to the environment they have no say over.

Its the fact that lots of schools are still insisting on a child wearing a dress or skirt just because they are a girl. Lots of schools still will not allow a girl to wear shorts or trousers. What is this indoctrination in our children?

Also the fact some school also shame girls who are wearing the dresses/skirts they have to wear to attend that school, because they end up flashing their pants when sat on the carpet, doing hands stand, cart wheels and hang upside down. They are chastised for it, told off, told to cover up, in some schools girls are told they can only do those things if the are wearing "modesty shorts" or "safety shorts" under their uniform.

I honestly thought this type of sexiest dress code and expectations had long since gone. mainly because I went to school that allowed girls to wear shorts and trousers, and did not make me feel embarrassed or ashamed to hang upside down when I did wear a skirt. So I stupidly assumed all schools had gone with the laws and guidance on equality.

How come from such a young age we are instilling this in children. Girls must wear a skirt, Girls must be modest at all times.
all because..... well they are Girls.

How can it be changed? How can schools be made to take a long hard look at themselves and what they are truly teaching our children about the opposite sex.

• * Title edited by MNHQ **

There is no problem at my dd's school with girls wearing trousers, but there have been protests about boys not being allowed to wear skirts! None of the kids are allowed to wear shorts, which is tough in the hot weather.

I think you mean sexist - sexiest means something entirely different! Are you sure that lots of schools insist on girls wearing skirts/dresses? I'd be surprised if many did tbh. All the schools I know of quite rightly allow girls to wear trousers, though the trousers option is often very unpopular with the girls.

It's rare for a state school to insist on skirts/dresses for girls (unless it is an all girls school)

I do not think schools should routinely be policing what girls who choose to wear skirts wear underneath them. Unless it's nothing; in which case there's either been a spectacular mistake that morning at home, or there's something that might need a bit more careful attention.

Girls-only schools presumably don't have (or need to have) these silly 1950s rules?

At my children's school the girls can wear shorts, trousers, dresses or skirts as long as they are in the schools colour scheme. If a boy wanted to wear a skirt it actually wouldn't be an issue either I don't think. Every school has the national policies they follow but also can set their own.

TBH why can't a boy wear a skirt?

if the school find that all too squeamish though why not just say shorts and trousers for everyone, I'm primary school shorts are the most practical solution for all children.

At my DC’s secondary school there’s just a uniform list with no specified ‘girl’ or ‘boy’ items. Girls can wear trousers and boys can wear skirts.

this is the thread its sad reading

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3947473-Shorts-under-skirts-for-girls-a-new-thing

sexist! I'm dyslexic and auto correct corrected me and I didn't think

Primary schools especially could easily just have one uniform code... For example grey skirt/trousers/shorts, blue poloshirt/shirt, navy jumper/cardigan. That is my DCs uniform... But it's written as seperate girl and boy lists, with the girls list only mentioning the skirts, listing tight colours as well (the boys list only mentions dark socks), plus option of blue/navy dress in summer.

Several moves and schools ago, the Reception class were only allowed joggers or jersey shorts- they said it was more practical. I thought it was a shame it wasn't until Yr2!

No - totally on your side OP. When I was a kid (70s) no-one thought anything of girls hanging upside down from monkey bars with (capacious sensible airtex) knickers on show because they were 7 year old kids doing what 7 year olds do, namely playing, and who - other than a completely pervy weirdo - would put a sexual connotation on that?

(Also with you on autocorrect which just tried to change pervy to Percy).

At the school I teach in girls can wear shorts / trousers but very very few do. Then the parents want them to wear shorts until their dresses for modesty - just wear uniform shorts instead!

I think no matter the uniform policy a lot of parents still think that girls should be in skirts.

DDs schools all permitted trousers or skirt or shorts for all. But girls wore skirts and boys wore trousers regardless which is what I found odd. They also had the option of two colour tops, in practice boys all wore the darker one, girls all wore the white one. Social conditioning is a hard one to break.
DD did want to wear trousers but then stopped as she was the only girl in her class in them and conformity felt unbreakable to her in primary school.

The junior school dd is going to in Sept allows the girls to wear trousers or shorts but bizarrely boys wear jumpers and girls wear cardigans. Wtf is that about? As it happens it's almost impossible to get dd to wear a jumper so I won't be able to make a stand about it!

The shorts thing under skirts? I have tiny shorts for my DD to wear mainly because she spends her life upside down on the bars and girls knickers don't cover much. Not in terms of being looked at but protecting the skin when playing.

She also has some short style underwear which are great because then she doesn't want to wear shorts too.

My son’s school is great, the school uniform is ‘gender neutral’ and lists skirts, trousers, shorts, summer dresses etc as choices for all pupils.

Also wearing shorts under skirts isn’t that new, I’m 32 and we all wore cycling shorts under our skirts.

my dc go to a school without uniform.
none of the girls wear dresses/skirts to school.
in addition cycling to school is strongly encouraged, a skirt/dress is just not as practical as trousers or shirts.

yeah maybe it is fewer schools than I thought, and more social conditioning.

I just got the rage reading about some schools actually not allowing shorts as part of the girls uniform, and telling girls off for flashing.

Social conditioning just seems like a never ending up hill climb

Thank you MNHQ

schools can be helpful, but need a strong governance team (and pta) behind them.
dd's old school for example had a 'no open shoes' policy, i.e. no mary-jane type shoes or ballerinas.

Well girls need to be taught not to flash their knickers - I'm assuming they mean deliberately lashing for attention. Just as boys boys need to be taught not to upskirt, and everyone not rab and lift skirts with aim of humiliating (indeed not to do that to any garment worn by anyine)

Because there's bound to be the odd incident of silliness, and it just needs to be dealt with.

If it simply means that knickers sometimes show during normal playtime activity, then i dinmt see there's a need for action. Unless other pupils are teasing (or worse) because of it. In which case it is those pupils who need teaching, and in the nastier or in persistent cases, then disciplining.

I do think there is a good case for choosing big knickers or shorts style for people who prefer dresses and like to invert themselves. If your bum eats the back of flimsy pants then that looks naked from behind, and that's not right in a school setting.

Well girls need to be taught not to flash their knickers

and children should be taught road safety by pushing them into the road?

A lot of the academy type schools have a strict dress code with tartan kilts or pinafores for girls (emulating private schools) - it isn’t all that unusual.

The point is that it leads into subtle stereotypes, because if you don’t want to charge around doing cartwheels and showing your knickers (understandable) then the games you play are naturally going to be slightly less robust. People then make assumptions about what girls and boys like to do on the back of this.

I personally think the headache solver is simply ‘the uniform is skirt or trousers’ and it is up to each child what they choose to wear.

I don't quite get your point, bluefoxmug

I'm not sure I would use road safety as a parallel example (because it is of such a different type and scale of importance)

But as you raised it, then surely the parallel would be teaching a girl who was jumping on an off a kerb, of her own volition, to stop it?

When I was at secondary in the 90s we campaigned to be allowed to wear trousers.

Now I teach and I'd say 95% of the girls wear skirts.

On my first placement school I actually asked it girls were allowed to wear trousers because I hadn't seen any in them (they were).

But back to 'modesty' shorts. As long as they are wearing underwear I don't think the top of a prepubescent girls leg should cause anyone any issues - and it it does they are the ones that need dealing with, not the legs.

We let ours come in PE kits when it's hot, so shorts as part of the uniform becomes redundant.

I'm always suprised that some schools still enforce this.
The school I went to changed the rules to allow girls to wear trousers in about 1988.
If I didn't read mumsnet, I'd think it had completely disappeared.
Having said that, the number of girls wearing trousers in DC's schools has always been very small. DD is one of the few who has never worn a skirt.