Why in 2020 are ours schools still instilling sexist rules

[NewYearNewTwatName]

inspired by the modesty shorts for wearing under skirts skirts thread.

I don't want to discuss the rights and wrongs on that, As I think parents and their daughters are just reacting to the environment they have no say over.

Its the fact that lots of schools are still insisting on a child wearing a dress or skirt just because they are a girl. Lots of schools still will not allow a girl to wear shorts or trousers. What is this indoctrination in our children?

Also the fact some school also shame girls who are wearing the dresses/skirts they have to wear to attend that school, because they end up flashing their pants when sat on the carpet, doing hands stand, cart wheels and hang upside down. They are chastised for it, told off, told to cover up, in some schools girls are told they can only do those things if the are wearing "modesty shorts" or "safety shorts" under their uniform.

I honestly thought this type of sexiest dress code and expectations had long since gone. mainly because I went to school that allowed girls to wear shorts and trousers, and did not make me feel embarrassed or ashamed to hang upside down when I did wear a skirt. So I stupidly assumed all schools had gone with the laws and guidance on equality.

How come from such a young age we are instilling this in children. Girls must wear a skirt, Girls must be modest at all times.
all because..... well they are Girls.

How can it be changed? How can schools be made to take a long hard look at themselves and what they are truly teaching our children about the opposite sex.

• * Title edited by MNHQ **

I grew up in a country where bike shirts under skirts/dresses is the norm. It prevents chaffing in the summer and keeps you warm in the winter. It’s also nice to have a layer between underwear and dirt/grass. I don’t recall it ever being touted as a modesty issue. To be perfectly honest I find it weird that you wouldn’t put your child in these or at least in boyfriend cut pants always, it’s much more comfortable.

However it is silly to have separate uniforms for different sexes. It’s impractical on so many levels not least of all because it gets so cold in the U.K. in the winter months that not having pants as an option is unkind, of conversely not having shorts/skirts as an option in summer.

My daughters school girls can wear trousers, most don,t . at primary I would say the majority wear skirts, and at my highschool the majprity wore skirts. Yes equal rights is good, but free choice says it,s not always about he right to wear them more about the style and costs.

All the mixed schools i know allow trousers. I only know of all girl schools that don't allow trousers

It's ridiculous. But there are girls the same age being mad to wear the hijab. That's much worse.

TBH why can't a boy wear a skirt?

I've always thought it particularly ridiculous not to allow it when the girl's uniform is a kilt.

Yes equal rights is good, but free choice says it,s not always about he right to wear them more about the style and costs.

At my all girls school, most of the girls wore trousers.

At my mixed school, girls wearing trousers were the subject of continuous comments and questioning, so even I switched to a skirt (and I hate skirts, and haven't owned one for more than 20 years now).

It's not always choice - school culture makes a huge difference - the comments I got if I wore trousers weren't exactly bullying - not something you could go to a teacher over, but they were strongly dissuasive - you were viewed as a weirdo if you weren't wearing a skirt (by both boys and girls)

Schools that don't let girls wear trousers seem rare.

But TBH I don't think it matters much in terms of the sexism business - functionality is sometimes an issue but that's a quite different argument.

It's just clothes, and we've given way to much power to what kids want to wear, to the point that they believe that represents some inner authenticity. Yes, you can switch around skirts and pants and their sex associations and it wouldn't matter because there is no intrinsic connection. It's just a traditional association with male or female. It won't change who you are to wear a flipping uniform with some sort of traditional nod to whether you are male or female. Lots of people don't like their uniforms.

I used to think this stuff was important, I now think it has zero to do with real sexism. Unlike sexualisation of female bodies through clothing which is apparently right on and modern.

What undergarments people wear under their clothes OTOH is personal, as long as there are some and they aren't visible. Though if the skirts are too short, making them longer might be an option - I remember last year I think reading that the girls at Rugby had voted to keep their skirts, even though everyone assumed they would be happy to get rid of them (being old-fashioned and presumably sexist.)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pupils-long-to-keep-old-fashioned-skirts-c885c2wsw

Both the primary and secondary my dc attend allow skirts/trousers/shorts for whoever wants to wear them, boy or girl. Trousers and shorts are far more practical for school. If anything, they should get rid of skirts for everyone (the summer dresses are quite cool and comfy, though).

Worse is girls wearing ballet flats and then injuring themselves while running. Everyone should wear comfy, sturdy shoes that you can run safely in.

If a boy wore a dress to school with flimsy pants underneath that exposed his testicles or penis I think the school would ask him to cover up as well though.

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines

Yes equal rights is good, but free choice says it,s not always about he right to wear them more about the style and costs.

At my all girls school, most of the girls wore trousers.

At my mixed school, girls wearing trousers were the subject of continuous comments and questioning, so even I switched to a skirt (and I hate skirts, and haven't owned one for more than 20 years now).

It's not always choice - school culture makes a huge difference - the comments I got if I wore trousers weren't exactly bullying - not something you could go to a teacher over, but they were strongly dissuasive - you were viewed as a weirdo if you weren't wearing a skirt (by both boys and girls)

This sort of thing isn't uniform related really IMO. My school had no uniforms, but it was still considered weird and girly to wear a skirt. Kids like to enforce conformity amongst themselves.

No issue at my kids school.

Girls can wear shorts/trousers no issue.

@StripeyBananas I don't think the complaint was that the girls were showing their bodies, it was that showing their knickers was deemed to be offensive. So not comparable with a boy having his penis and testicles out.

At 4 years old, if a girl is bought and sent to school in only skirts and dresses, they don't really get a choice. They just get use to skirts and dresses as the norm, As they get older they will probably be less likely to choose shorts or trousers because it's not their norm.

As PP said it's more about social conditioning.

At primary we didn't have uniforms so girls wore a mix of skirts, dresses, shorts, Jean's, trousers.

At my girls secondary, I had 2 skirts and 2 pairs of trousers. most wore skirts or culottes in summer and trousers in winter.

its wasn't unusual to see girls wearing trousers for school uniform.

Tbh it would just be far better if there was one list that all kids could pick from. Shorts trousers skirts and dresses etc.

I also think girls knickers should stop being itchy lacy ill fitting crap, yes you can get better ones , tbh having had a child who suffers from eczema who is finds lacy trims irritating and scratches at herself as a result BUT to do so often means a longer hunt online and alot of extra money. I can pay £££ for a pack of free seamless short style pants in m&s or get a 5 pack for far less of the think crappy ones from primark. Of course anyone with young kids who gets through alot of pants either from.accidents or generally being heavy on clothing and destroying them, will go for the cheaper ones.

Dd1 always wore shorts because she sisbr want anyone laughing at her pants when she did handstand etc. Yes the problem is the laughing but at the same time there are just times when embarrassing your child to prove a point is not appropriate really.

My dd high school have told the girls they must wear the school colours for pe , which i dont have a problem with , but the boys get away with wearing white t-shirts my dd was told to change hers not because it isnt school colours but because you could see her bra under it and it was distracting for the boys 😡

What did they expect when they made white t shirts the school uniform?

I don’t know of any school around here that won’t let girls wear trousers-I include the v high-achieving single sex grammars and catholic schools.

Parents wanting their daughters to wear something under their dresses isn’t down to schools ‘still instilling sexist rules’.

My sons primary school has a uniform for all, the girls dont have a skirt option they wear Skorts which look like a skirt from the front but are actually shorts. Since they are primary kids they are always doing handstands and cartwheels so I think this is a good compromise. The girls I know mostly don't want to wear trousers like the boys.

I do wonder about all these girls doing handstands and cartwheels and presumably that FWR dream activity- climbing trees.

I was at primary school in the mid to late 60s- I have no recollection at all of doing handstands and cartwheels or of anyone else doing them other than possibly in PE classes. I do wonder if this is another "only on Mumsnet" thing.

I do remember girls playing extremely elaborate skipping games- with double ropes or 2 girls sharing one rope or a very long rope held by 2 girls or Chinese skipping with elastic. I suppose that would not be encouraged of course because it's for girls.

Re school uniform the school my son went to had a very strict uniform policy. They eventually allowed girls to wear trousers but it wasn't popular.

I was at primary in the 80s. At a school where girls werent allowed to wear trousers.

We all did handstands up against the changing sheds or walls. It was the in thing too, to do handstands then go right over into a crab.

Pe knickers were also a thing.

In the 70s handstands and cartwheels were hugely popular on our school field. I remember the headmaster saying girls had to wear shorts under their skirts as he didn't want a "knicker show" when we did cartwheels.

We didn't have school uniform

I don't remember if we did cartwheels at school - I think probably not as there was no soft grassy area, just asphalt.

A lot of girls skipped, I refused as I thought it was too girly. I know realise it was pretty cool and athletic and regret it. Apparently no kids skip now at school, my son boxes and has become a good skipper but he hadn't really seen it done before and had to be taught by his coach.

I thought things might have moved on since I was at school and the girls needed to wear swimming caps but the boys didn’t, in case the girls’ hair blocked the pool filter.. I basically had a buzz cut when a lot of the boys had long hair and I still remember the injustice.

Quite a few schools have gone 'gender neutral' by removing the skirt option so girls have to wear trousers.

Which comes with other problems.

Also, why is male default the 'gender neutral' option?

Sexism is alive and well.