Why in 2020 are ours schools still instilling sexist rules

[NewYearNewTwatName]

inspired by the modesty shorts for wearing under skirts skirts thread.

I don't want to discuss the rights and wrongs on that, As I think parents and their daughters are just reacting to the environment they have no say over.

Its the fact that lots of schools are still insisting on a child wearing a dress or skirt just because they are a girl. Lots of schools still will not allow a girl to wear shorts or trousers. What is this indoctrination in our children?

Also the fact some school also shame girls who are wearing the dresses/skirts they have to wear to attend that school, because they end up flashing their pants when sat on the carpet, doing hands stand, cart wheels and hang upside down. They are chastised for it, told off, told to cover up, in some schools girls are told they can only do those things if the are wearing "modesty shorts" or "safety shorts" under their uniform.

I honestly thought this type of sexiest dress code and expectations had long since gone. mainly because I went to school that allowed girls to wear shorts and trousers, and did not make me feel embarrassed or ashamed to hang upside down when I did wear a skirt. So I stupidly assumed all schools had gone with the laws and guidance on equality.

How come from such a young age we are instilling this in children. Girls must wear a skirt, Girls must be modest at all times.
all because..... well they are Girls.

How can it be changed? How can schools be made to take a long hard look at themselves and what they are truly teaching our children about the opposite sex.

• * Title edited by MNHQ **

How is it 'neutral' to remove an option?

I haven't heard of any schools removing the skirt option.
Quite a few? How many?

A couple of years ago here in the uk, in the news a school policy let girls choose skirt or long trousers but boys only had the choice of long trousers.
Come the heatwave in summer and the boys asked if they could wear uniform shorts? Typical heads response. No, but you can wear skirts if you want
The lads were made of sterner stuff than the head knew. The group protesting all turned up in skirts with the local media in tow.
Glad to say the girls all supported them
Afaik the governor's decided to allow shorts in the summer.

I haven't heard of any schools removing the skirt option

There have been a few. There have been threads on it with some posters lauding it as a good thing.

My DD prefers to wear skirt/dress, others in her school choose to wear skorts or trousers. The uniform code is broad at her school.

I do believe a big part of the modesty shorts is a trend effectively handed down from.big sisters to younger ones, as around age 9 to 11 they are more conscious of privacy.

I also believe a big part of it is the annual NSPCC "PANTS" lesson the kids get from Foundation onwards emphasising that Pants are private. If you drum this message in every year, quite rightly, is it any wonder that girls don't want to flash their knickers whenever they climb a tree, turn a cartwheel or roll around on the floor?

Personally I'd rather they felt comfortable in their clothes and I didnt push my own views on them. I don't think skirts are inherently sexist. I think it is the attitude of adults in response that is sexist.

Actually I think trousers are gender neutral rather than male. Not 100 years ago perhaps, but they are now.

It is defaulting to the option which men and boys are comfortable with.

There are issues for some girls with trousers.

I can go into it but I feel like we've had threads on it before.

Removing a choice for girls rather than adding one for boys feels less than progressive.

Agree OP. Watch any group of parents/teachers with girls aged around 3-7, and look at the effort that goes into socialising the girls not to show their knickers. If the girls are in skirts (unless shorts underneath), that inevitably means stopping the girls moving freely, whereas boys can run, jump and play without constraint.

It's actually worse than 50 years ago because, back in the day, girls tended to wear knickers not much smaller than many shorts are now, so flashing them was less of a big deal.

High school teacher. Ours have a choice and I would say 85% choose a skirt. Quite a few wear skorts as the skirt style has one pleat.
Most of the girls wear shorts under their skirts. I am glad as walking behind girls up the stairs can result in an eyeful of pants - with just looking the way I am going.
I also get an eyeful of boys' pants when they lean over the desk and their trousers are slung low.

Whilst girls shouldn't be made to be embarrassed or ashamed - they have freedom of choice.

My dd wanted to wear trousers from the age of 7 at school, so I bought her some. I didn’t even think to check the school’s policy! She’s never worn a skirt since, and now at high school she is in a tiny minority of girls who wear trousers. The school uniform page is separate boys/girls. Trousers optional for girls but no mention of skirts for boys.

IME most parents of Reception age girls either say "oh my Jenny won't wear trousers" (who's the parent here? What are you doing with your older boy's trousers? Oh yes that's right, throwing them away like you threw away his blue pram and his dinosaur baby top in case your girl grew a willy!), or they assume it isn't allowed, or they say they don't want their daughter to be teased (I refer you to my first point).
It gets to a tipping point where almost all the girls wear skirts so then they all must.
(I have a Y1 DD and she happily wears her big brother's trousers and shorts but she does have a couple of dresses for days like today when loose and flowing is better. No shorts under them. Never been teased AFAIK and I trust the school to deal with it).

dr

My dd doesnt wear trousers to school. Outside of school she wont touch a skirt with someone elses barge pole.

The biggest issue we had with trousers is the fact that none if them seem to have even been shown a developing girl in their design or manufacture.

All these shops churn out cheap glass produced uniform but the design and quality even from places like m&s which is supposed to be on the higher quality end of the spectrum, well they are just ghastly.

This also has another knock on effect t in that schools are often now going for those expensive tartan single supplier skirts so where boys can pick up a pair of asda trousers for 6 quid, and girls are forced to pay 3 times that for a skirt because the trousers are just shocking.

IME most parents of Reception age girls either say "oh my Jenny won't wear trousers" (who's the parent here? What are you doing with your older boy's trousers? Oh yes that's right, throwing them away like you threw away his blue pram and his dinosaur baby top in case your girl grew a willy!)

You have no way of knowing if that scenario is true. Children can be very determined about not wearing clothes they don't like. I know one little girl who absolutely refused to wear skirts from about age 3 to late teens. It involved tears and tantrums and her mother gave up. In the absence of a uniform policy at her school her mother was happy to let her wear what she wanted

Of course if it were a boy determined to wear a skirt you'd be applauding him.

Pardon?
I have heard the parents say this.
I have seen them getting entirely new outfits for their newborn girl.
My DD just wore a mix of her brother's stuff and stuff people gave us so is comfortable in trousers and skirts.
Obviously a gIrl put only in dresses from birth isn't going to be as comfortable in trousers.
The mum of only other girl in my DD class who wears trousers spent ages explaining to everyone that this was all she'd wear, she won't put on a dress. Like it would be a failing of hers if her DD wasn't in a dress.

Of course if it were a boy determined to wear a skirt you'd be applauding him.
Eh? How does this follow?

When I first came (back to) MN recently, it was to ask here about sexism in schools for some research I was doing (and am now writing up) and honestly it's been eye opening.
I just wrote the uniform section and when you think about it, it's pretty shocking how schools reinforce some very sexist standards including forcing girls to modify their dress or behaviour rather than teaching boys / male teachers to be more respectful.
Although a lot of schools say they have non gender specific uniform, in practice that just means they're not proscribing what boys and girls can wear, so girls can wear trousers and boys can wear skirts, but of course none do. (Boys I mean.)
I found just one school that had adopted genuinely gender neutral uniform and that is a primary that decided to make their curriculum much more active and they swapped the usual trousers and dresses for a smart sports top / tracksuit bottoms and tshirt / shorts / skorts for all the children. Bizarrely, although the children loved it, the objection came from the parents of girls who wanted them to still wear dresses and skirts.
So it might seem that the gender norms are instilled by parents and reinforced by schools.

@DidoLamenting seriously?? Girls cartwheel pretty much non-stop in Junior school once they’ve got the hang of it - handstands too...

Of course if it were a boy determined to wear a skirt you'd be applauding him.
Eh? How does this follow?

Oh come off it. It's the FWR mantra - every body should wear what they want but we all know boys who wear clothes seen as for girls are worthy of extra praise.

@DidoLamentingseriously?? Girls cartwheel pretty much non-stop in Junior school once they’ve got the hang of it - handstands too...

Not my experience- as I said the big thing was complicated skipping games- which one poster said were too girly

@drspouse

IME most parents of Reception age girls either say "oh my Jenny won't wear trousers" (who's the parent here? What are you doing with your older boy's trousers? Oh yes that's right, throwing them away like you threw away his blue pram and his dinosaur baby top in case your girl grew a willy!), or they assume it isn't allowed, or they say they don't want their daughter to be teased (I refer you to my first point). It gets to a tipping point where almost all the girls wear skirts so then they all must. (I have a Y1 DD and she happily wears her big brother's trousers and shorts but she does have a couple of dresses for days like today when loose and flowing is better. No shorts under them. Never been teased AFAIK and I trust the school to deal with it).

Ok, but if your daughter was your firstborn would you send your son to school in her old dresses? or put him in a pink pram? Or in a pink top with butterflies on? So many people think it's ok for girls to wear boys clothes, but not the other way round. Why is this do you think?

@ShinyFootball

There are issues for some girls with trousers.

I can go into it but I feel like we've had threads on it before.

Removing a choice for girls rather than adding one for boys feels less than progressive.

Oh, I don't think they should get rid of skirts. I also don't care if clothes are not identical for each sex.

But trousers are not gendered as such now, any more than robes were 1000 years ago.

Excellent point! My daughter (15) created a survey about this, which she is going to present to her school board. If you would like to take it and share it around to help, we would both greatly appreciate it!

This is the survey:
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeSi3eqbPymoPMNoPdfO96a8EqW4Z5ynbWawel1RzHzhHys_Q/viewform?usp=sf_link

My son did wear a pink top, he will still has some, he's 8. No big deal, just a colour he likes. Now they have choice, I buy stuff his size, some he wears, some he doesn't and DD wears, some neither like which is a tad annoying!

DD's school allows trousers , but not shorts as part of the summer uniform. They also have cardigans and jumpers and I was told she couldn't have a jumper because they were so boys. Now you fucking tell me?!?

The best one is that girls are allowed only white,cream or brown socks/tights whereas boys have black added too. Which is much more practical and easier to find.

There is not a school policy on shorts, I asked . Staff however still make comments and DD was told at 6 that she can't do cartwheels unless she wears shorts. That's when I checked the uniform policy with the head. Now at 8, she asked for shorts herself last week.

My dd's primary school allows shorts, trousers, skirts and pinafores and summer dresses. My dd is one of a few girls who prefers wearing trousers, the majority wear the dresses. I don't know of any boys who wear a skirt or dress but don't believe it is against the rules (not sure on that though).