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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Authors quit JK Rowling's literary agency

471 replies

donquixotedelamancha · 22/06/2020 16:22

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/22/authors-quit-jk-rowling-agency-over-transgender-rights

The ever entertaining TRA power couple Fox and Owl were apparently represented by the same agents as the wonderful Ms Rowling.

They, along with some bloke called Drew Davies, have severed ties because the agents refused to issue a public statement slagging off their biggest client.

Being bastions of professionalism they left by telling the guardian.

OP posts:
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17
IsMiseMorag · 22/06/2020 17:22

What does this bit mean though? I can’t parse the meaning at all. There should be less freedom of speech because some people get listened to more than others, and they should shut up? JKR should only get to say stuff if we also promise to listen to Fox and Owl too? Eh?

I think it means, "everyone can say what they want but I WILL BE SPEAKING OVER EVERYONE ELSE AND USING THIS MEGAPHONE AND I WILL ALSO BE PRE-VETTING ANYTHING YOU SAY AND IF I DON'T LIKE IT YOU HAVE TO SIT DOWN."

Tanith · 22/06/2020 17:22

Drew whats-is-name has a new book coming out.
Now there's a surprise!

Lamahaha · 22/06/2020 17:23

its uncomfortable to be gc in publishing at the moment. the t is so embedded in the lgb and black lives matter, you do look like a bigot if you say anything.

OTOH, fiction is one of the areas that has managed to stay out of their claws. Imagine if novelists had to be constantly walking on eggshells; if it were taboo to recognise characters as male or female, if they had to be constantly asking each other for pronouns etc, just in case they were trans! If words like cis were mandatory and everyone had to be defined accordingly! If it had to be assumed that men could get pregnant and have periods, and women could have penises...

About a year ago I was a member of a FB group of editors. I used to ask questions there about writing and get sound answers. Then one day one of the professional editors (US based of course) posted something about correctly inclusive language -- what gender-inclusive language editors should replace traditional phrases and words with.
It was awful.

So I barged in and said that such changes would be the ruin of good fiction, and they'd better not interfere as fiction authors probably wouldn't stand for it.

Within minutes I had dozens of angry faces (maybe one or two likes) and people replying angrily to what I'd said and how transphobic and bigoted I was. Next thing I knew, I was expelled from the group.

LillianBland · 22/06/2020 17:23

Fox
The word ‘demanding’ makes us sound so unreasonable.

Let me think. 🤔 Tell your agents you want them to force their staff to be educated in your faith and be forced to follow that faith, then walking out because you don’t get your own way? I’d say using the words ‘demanding’ and ‘re-education’ is bloody polite.

Furx · 22/06/2020 17:25

I nearly didn’t open this thread in case it was depressing

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Susanna85 · 22/06/2020 17:28

I don't know how this has all gone so far Sad. Can't everyone be rational while being kind to trans people. Why should we all have to 're-educate' it won't undo that we all instinctively recognise male / female.
I hate feeling like 'the bad guy' but it's all absurd. How do we stand up to this.

BoreOfWhabylon · 22/06/2020 17:28

@teawamutu

I know there's a hell of a long way to go, but we're seeing more and more green shoots of hope, aren't we?
We are indeed!

The wheels on the bus are falling off,
Falling off, falling off...

JemimaShore · 22/06/2020 17:29

LOVE these publishers. That's the second onslaught by TRA types they faced and not crumbled.

Although it's not much of a choice is it? JK Rowling or, er, Fox and Owl...

JKRowling : 2
TRAs: 0

SuckingDieselFella · 22/06/2020 17:30

@SophocIestheFox

Devastating news. Still, the literary worlds’ loss is the...um...well I’m sure it must be someone, somewhere’s gain Grin

“Freedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed”

What does this bit mean though? I can’t parse the meaning at all. There should be less freedom of speech because some people get listened to more than others, and they should shut up? JKR should only get to say stuff if we also promise to listen to Fox and Owl too? Eh?

It's ideologue-speak,. If you have to ask the meaning, it shows you aren't 'one of us'.

Roughly translated, it means - we decide what freedom of speech is, we decide who gets to uphold it, we decide where the structural inequalities are, we decide what equal opportunities are (and who should have opportunities), we decide which groups are underrepresented, we decide who should be challenged and what should be changed.

How delusional can you get?

twoHopes · 22/06/2020 17:30

This is why it's so, so important that JK Rowling spoke out. She's so successful she's un-cancellable. No one is going to stop publishing/selling Harry Potter, no matter what she tweets.

The cynic in me notes that it's interesting how all these companies have found a burning desire to protect free speech now that they might lose millions in revenue. But still - I'll take it.

SophocIestheFox · 22/06/2020 17:31

Wait, hold on, the agency also represents Tyson Fury.

I do hope Fox and Owl have been equally insistent that the company distances itself from his well documented misogyny and homophobia, and that they’ve been equally assiduous in requesting training to counter that? Oh wait, no, isn’t Fox is on record as saying gay people are deviant? So shouldn’t JKR be cancelling Fox? Should Tyson be cancelling Owl, as Tyson thinks women belong on their back or in the kitchen, and not making films?

It’s all so confusing Grin

OldeMagick · 22/06/2020 17:32

@TheSingingKettle49

🙄 it’s JK Rowling, I mean seriously, I can’t even. I mean combined they probably bring in like 1% of what she does.

The phrase I’m thinking of is cutting off your nose to spite your face 🤦🏽‍♀️

I think 1% is a bit generous...
wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 22/06/2020 17:33
Grin
Enderthedragon · 22/06/2020 17:35

Lol I saw the title and thought 'oh that's not good, I wonder who has gone' expecting some big names to be speaking out or something.

Then I saw it was.... Fox and Owl! 😂

FantaOra · 22/06/2020 17:35

The training All about Trans runs is all about how everyone has to speak trans speak all of the time. And will no doubt rewrite discrimination law to suit trans people ignoring anyone else and postitioning people as uneducated bigots.

I am so glad to hear this organisation describe this accurately as a demand for re-education.

Doyoumind · 22/06/2020 17:36

I had a little laugh to myself when I saw this earlier. I was in no way surprised to find Fox and Owl involved. Hardly a difficult commercial decision to make when choosing between nobodies and JKR but I'm glad the agency were vocal about the re-education point.

SophocIestheFox · 22/06/2020 17:38

If you have to ask the meaning, it shows you aren't 'one of us'

Grin
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/06/2020 17:41

If anyone asks Rowling about this she should refer to Fox and Owl as Who and WhoTwo.

(She won't because she's a lot less petty than me.)

contactusdeletus · 22/06/2020 17:41

@LillianBland

Fox The word ‘demanding’ makes us sound so unreasonable.

Let me think. 🤔 Tell your agents you want them to force their staff to be educated in your faith and be forced to follow that faith, then walking out because you don’t get your own way? I’d say using the words ‘demanding’ and ‘re-education’ is bloody polite.

Exactly this. They really can't see that their belief in gender as something inherent to a person's very soul is just another spiritual belief. It's not objective fact and the entire world does not need to be "re-educated" - a.k.a indoctrinated - into it.
AlwaysTawnyOwl · 22/06/2020 17:41

Good for the agency. A simple 'no' should be said more often.

Kantastic · 22/06/2020 17:41

The word "demanding" makes us sound so unreasonable

Amazing. Absolutely amazing. They are taking issue with "demanding" but they are absolutely fine with "re-educated to their point of view."

Even phrased like that, they don't register that there's a problem with it.

Datun · 22/06/2020 17:44

The co-author of the Trans Teen Survival Guide suggested the literary agency should conduct staff training with the group All About Trans

Whose bright idea was to call it All About Trans? Still, you certainly can't fault them for misrepresentation.

Datun · 22/06/2020 17:46

The word "demanding" makes us sound so unreasonable

What else is it, if you say if you don't do this we'll leave?

It would be so much more genuine to just bloody leave.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/06/2020 17:47

Them earn 1% of what JK Rowling earns! You are being far too generous. They couldn't even dream of earning that amount

I was going to say, isn't that rather a generous estimate? If one day in the utopian future they managed to pull in 0.0001% of what her least successful book did they'd be besides themselves with excitement.

TedsFederationRep · 22/06/2020 17:48

Well, thank goodness that the recent upsurge in JKR's back catalogue means that there will be no noticeable impact on Hachette's profits caused by the flouncy exit of....sorry, what are their names again?
GrinGrinGrin

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