Becoming pretty sure that my female friends have no idea what is going on with women's rights ...

[Ginnyhip46]

Anyone else getting this feeling? They don't actually know that we are now menstruators who have to accept biological women have penises. No one got a manual with the list of new changes and revisions to the doublespeak in it.
We need a primer that lists the points that can anonymously get posted 🤦🏽‍♀️ My friends are all so woke they are asleep and blind.

I have these secret conversations with other GC women now, we are underground and feral.

A couple of my friends really get it. I have tried to talk to a couple of family members but they just don't want to know. They don't want to hear it. I think it is a mixture of fear and denial.

Oh, and the younger ones are being kind and completely taken in by Stonewall.

Most people don't believe me when I tell them the majority of transwomen have penises.

Very few of my friends have any idea and they believe this is all just about acceptance.

my friends refuse to listen. They it’s something to do with effeminate gay men & surgery & intersex. All very confused thinking. & be kind & harmless & passing for years & it will never happen.

Ironically most of my mates are women who work in STEM at the top of their field age 47-52.

Because things have been changed little by little so in the main it goes unnoticed until too late.
They think of transexuals being unhappy gay men rather than aggressive straight males so want to 'be kind'

I also think a part of it is people don't like admitting they have made a mistake supporting this sexist, homophobic crap.

What pisses me off is "Menstruator" isn't even a real word or noun. It's made up. Neither the Dictionary or the Thesaurus recognise it. This makes it even more insulting. I'm tempted to share these on my Facebook, since I've recently come out as GC anyway. I've got nothing to lose!

The problem here is being able to talk about it. So to make others aware we need to be able to discuss the women's rights and the conflict with trans rights/Self ID. Initially the #nodebate campaign did that quite successfully I think but as more and more speak up, just in our daily lives, with our hairdressers, at coffee, etc (post lock down) not only do others wake up to it but accusations of 'transphobia' lose all meaning, even bigotry is a stretch when the other person is trying to shut down the debate.

Mumsnet has been a great pace and resource for these conversations but I honestly think if we took it out into our real life relationships we would find it's not so shocking an concept that woman is adult human female and to say so isn't harmful to others. Social media isn't real life.

It's scary, (but it shouldn't be) and we will lose friends (how much of a friend were they if recognising biological reality destroys a long-held friendship), you could lose your job (and you're going to need a crowdfunder to challenge that one) but I hope more of us manage to do it. It's very personal though and everyone has to decide if the risks are worth it.

For the handmaidens and libfems, these women are not my tribe and I've no interest in speaking to anyone who doesn't centre women in feminism. None.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Because things have been changed little by little so in the main it goes unnoticed until too late. They think of transexuals being unhappy gay men rather than aggressive straight males so want to 'be kind'

I also think a part of it is people don't like admitting they have made a mistake supporting this sexist, homophobic crap.

THIS. This is it exactly.

@Jintyfer dictionaries reflect current language, they don't dictate it. I'd be far more concerned if it was in a dictionary, as that would imply it has become widely understood and accepted.

Most people don't believe me when I tell them the majority of transwomen have penises

This ^

Some of my colleagues say ‘but it must be awful when you FEEL like a woman trapped in a man’s body’. I keep asking them what it ‘feels like’ to be a woman but they can’t answer that and come out with the ‘be kind’ rubbish, which means ‘it’s not affecting me at the moment and I don’t want to think about it any more in case I realise it does affect me’.

I know what you mean. When I try to explain to friends about the implications of self-ID they just say "well they'd never let THAT happen". They don't realise it's already happening.

And when I talk about all the issues I tend to get a bit angry, so I think my friends think I'm just a ranty feminist!

Yup my best friend contends TWAW and was shocked when I disagreed with her. She has no idea of what is going on and refuses to listen. Its infuriating that I am seen as transphobic becuase she refuses to learn what is going on around her.

I honestly don’t think it’s something my friends could get worked up about. They’d think I was a lunatic if I delved into it any deeper than I already have. Mind you, I’m seeing one of my best friends for the first time since lockdown this week so might try again...

Case in point, so I showed my friend an image of changes to language i.e. Menstruators, not being able to refer to mothers and daughters and she said "That's not real is it?" And then when I said yes she said "I think that's just hate mongering, trans men aren't trying to erase women." No logic or understanding that the changes to language will directly affect everyone involved. This is what we are up against. The women I know have no intention of educating themselves. Tuekeys matching for Xmas.

Turkey's even.

I don't think it's fair to assume people have "no idea" just because they don't hold the same opinion as you. I've read a ton of stuff, including JK's posts on her site - I still disagree with her/gender critical and it didn't stop me personally from being trans.

Just not wanting to know and being seen to be 'nice' seems to be the default. Even some one with a degree in, 'women's studies' on my fb would rather stick to veganism and Buddhism and doing girly stuff with her girls.

I don’t get how you can ‘disagree with her’, Loki. She described her experience and explained why it means she personally sees the need for single sex facilities, IIRC.

Just how can you ‘disagree’ with what happened to her and how she feels about it?

I had a horrid conversation with my lovely friends where I was so gobsmacked that they were arguing for 'being kind' and 'it won't affect us at all (or our daughters)' and if the bad men want to rape you in the ladies toilets, they will do it anyway etc etc and one of my friends who I think the world of is actually involved in helping a child transition at school against the parents wishes..... I am not very good at arguing a point (especially when I was so flummoxed by their pov) and failed miserably (wine was also involved), then my husband saw how sad I was about the whole conversation and doesn't want me to talk about it or worry about it disproportionately (he is Mr Super Sceptic and doesn't get it because he is a good guy and doesn't think like the TRAs) and now another acquaintance is helping to fund raise for her daughter's 'top surgery'(!) and I can't get any of it out of my head - so I'm glad to have found sensible people on mn and signed up after reading up so much more on the subject. I wish I was really good at marshalling my thoughts in a logical manner and putting them together to get my point across without it sounding crazy. I have every respect for people with gender dysphoria and wish them every chance at living their best lives but I don't believe these are the people that are demanding all the rights - this seems to be the autogynephiles and TRAs.

he is a good guy and doesn't think like the TRAs

That’s part of the problem - good people think other people are like them, when they are not, and think others would behave like them, when they would not.

What is happening is SO insane

• women incarcerated with rapists
• adult males in changing rooms with young girls - and if the young girl complains - SHE’S committing a hate crime
• adult males in female sports. Sports authorities ignoring the safety of women in rugby, boxing etc - before you even get onto equity and fair competition.

-elderly ladies being re-educated on the hospital ward and being told the bloke is a woman - even though there are single ‘sex’ policies in hospitals.

I find myself having to be so careful when I speak to friends as I know so many would think I'm transphobic. They too seem to have either no idea what's happening or think twaw without linking it to anything past toilets.

However, I have spoken to my mum, my dad and my brother who were also blissfully unaware and are shocked at the extent of misogyny shown by the fervent TRAs. The fact it coincided with JK Rowling's tweets had a lot to do with it. She really brought a lot of the problems out into the open.