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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury's guide to community disruptors part 5

983 replies

ItsLateHumpty · 20/06/2020 15:04

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember our monitors would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3691023-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-4

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches Gin

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highame · 22/08/2020 11:21

Methinks a lot of this is about sunlight and what effect it's had. Much more scrutiny and I don't think it's us and I don't think it's MN. Lots more around and twitchy and (it might just be me) more overt

ItsLateHumpty · 22/08/2020 13:43

Chatty while enjoying your cheesy snack, you might want to have a look at this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4002092-FWR-clarification-deletion-and-strikes?

I had the acronym beginning with A listed in my ‘banned words’ post upthread - I’m now wondering if I should just ask MN to add to it Sad

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ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2020 13:57

I had the acronym beginning with A listed in my ‘banned words’ post upthread - I’m now wondering if I should just ask MN to add to it

The current guidance is:
^ Will you consider deleting posts that associate transgender people with autogynephila (AGP)?
This is something we'd look at on a case by case basis, though we'll definitely delete posts which generalise.^

So, we know generalisations aren't ok - I have no argument with that, clearly it's wrong to associate trans people in general with something that only pertains to a subset of a heterogenous group under a wide umbrella. It also seems that being specific about individuals isn't ok either. How are women supposed to navigate the space between - the subsection of people identifying as TW who appear to have this trait? It's certainly not ok to have a situation where women feel they can't risk having a discussion for fear of strikes if they overstep the invisible and variable line.

EchoCardioGran · 22/08/2020 14:25

I had a similar case of Branston poisoning Nacht, the build up to the great chomp and then the taste alarm goes off. Sigh. Disappointment.
In other news, jury still out at hq but they see where I'm coming from.

highame · 22/08/2020 22:10

Whilst searching for something, I came across this article. Given the conversations of late, you might want a read

www.spectator.co.uk/article/if-mumsnet-can-stand-up-for-free-speech-why-can-t-mps-

ChattyLion · 22/08/2020 22:21

Good thread thank you for the link Humpty

EchoCardioGran · 22/08/2020 22:24

I note that was written in 2018 highame. Feels (to me) like we are going backwards.

ChattyLion · 22/08/2020 22:38

Highame good article.
I vote for a new sticky, outlining the importance of freedom for women to talk (as Kirkup describes) and also with that useful phrase restated, that ‘there is no right not to be offended ‘.Smile

highame · 22/08/2020 22:43

Yes, I know it's an old one but hopefully the feelings of protection of free speech will win out. Further deterioration and even stronger targeting. I think I'm just hopeful and the odd (old) article helps

Thought it was worth posting. James Kirkup still writes a good support piece, so he's not been TWAWed

OhHolyJesus · 22/08/2020 22:48

Talking of some uncomfortable issues Chatty I have notice some activity tonight of a new poster posting the same comments on a couple of old threads relating to the 'ultimate feminist act'.

Possibly my paranoia...

AlbusSirius · 23/08/2020 02:35

What is it with Surrogacy today? Has there been a klaxon somewhere Confused

nachthexe · 23/08/2020 03:19

Regarding branston, it was vile. It looked fine, but tasted like inhaling a chemical waste plant. It wasn’t even out of date. First off (when I recoiled) I thought the bloody buns had been tainted by oven cleaner from me putting them straight on the oven shelf. (And then I realised that no oven cleaner had been used in my skanky oven in living memory so I opened the bun and gave it a sniff.) That took me to the jar. I am devastated. We do not live in the motherland and there are very few things that we bother to buy. 😂
Anyhoo, I made dh investigate. He said it was fermented. That sounds like a good thing, but I can assure you that fermenting whatever the hell branston is made of is decidedly bad.
And I posted on the AMA because wtf. Bodies should not be for rent. Babies should not be for sale.
And besides which, I’m in a pissy mood because not only is my branston inedible (and I can’t get any more) but a guy came round to quote to fix the ceiling leak by the bathroom fan and apparently I need a new fucking roof. Of course I do. There’ll be no imported branston now lol.

Delphinium20 · 23/08/2020 06:03

@nachthexe I think you might have been watching one of my posts where I mistakenly presumed the identity of a person (MN took it down after I requested it). I was at first upset that someone thought I was a troll, but after finding this thread, I understand now. Finding FWR and the brilliant women here has been such a balm. I feel a bit like a kid sister begging to be included, but thanks for all the great work on MN.

OhHolyJesus · 23/08/2020 07:56

I think Albus you're right! Someone somewhere has found the board and the 'angry bitter ill informed' women need to get back in their box.

ArabellaScott · 23/08/2020 10:28

Sorry about the roof. And the branston. Would a chutney recipe help?!

Winesalot · 23/08/2020 10:32

@AlbusSirius

What is it with Surrogacy today? Has there been a klaxon somewhere Confused
I think there has been lots about it in the news so I guess there is no surprise there is lots of discussion about it.

It is quite interesting to see the morality of using a body, even a willing persons body, in this way to get what you want being ignored because it is such an emotive issue.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 23/08/2020 10:37

The surrogacy Momma ones seems a bit ... contrived to me.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/08/2020 10:38

It is quite interesting to see the morality of using a body, even a willing persons body, in this way to get what you want being ignored because it is such an emotive issue.

Men have been using women's bodies for millennia.

Winesalot · 23/08/2020 10:43

agreed Errol.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 23/08/2020 10:51

It is quite interesting to see the morality of using a body, even a willing persons body, in this way to get what you want being ignored because it is such an emotive issue

I think there is a lot to unpack here about the way motherhood has been constructed as essential to women/femininity. This is not to say that women should not desire motherhood, but I think a lot of the 'understanding' of surrogacy comes from this construction.

OhHolyJesus · 23/08/2020 11:50

I think there has been lots about it in the news

If only we would see the other side presented in the news as well, if just for balance if nothing else.

I saw a Cyprus Newspaper article yesterday, covering the fact that 14 surrogate mothers fled Ukraine post birth but pre-legal handover. They gave birth in makeshift hospitals, one baby died and they fled home to their families during Covid. The agencies doxxed them and aren't paying them.

You won't see that in Women's weekly let alone BBC or ITN.

Winesalot · 23/08/2020 12:44

Yes. That was heart breaking to read. And the pressure that was put on those women to take a caring role until the ‘real’ parents could come. One agency released the surrogates details on SM in an attempt to bully her. And the conditions they had to have their forced c sections. Truly heartbreaking.

AlbusSirius · 23/08/2020 12:47

So MNHQ have discovered that it's possible to delete all the OP's posts (if they turn out to be a troll or a PBP). That might be useful in FWR, rather than deleting entire threads.

ItsLateHumpty · 23/08/2020 14:37

Ooo AlbusSirius that’s a good witchy spell. I hope they remember how when it’s needed (again) - we’ve lost some really informative threads because the OP or a PBP is not in good faith and spams.

My preferred outcome would be to lock a thread and leave all intact so we and lurkers, and our monitors, can see exactly what’s been said and there can be no rewriting of facts.

But first things first - not being deleted would be good.

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ItsLateHumpty · 23/08/2020 14:48

OhHolyJesus I (in my youth) though surrogacy or donating eggs was an awesome, generous thing to do.

I think I was sold on the propaganda. And didn’t really think about the child.

Time and growing up have taught me much, but we’re all still learning. To that end I posted my questions on the ama / surrogacy thread and I’m still trying to unpack why I’m really not comfortable with the reply or the delivery. It’s very pat. Or something.

Anyway, I wanted to say I am really appreciative of your posts there and I’m still reading. When I’ve worked it out I’ll reply on thread.

Thanks Brew

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