1984 - George Orwell

[HuckfromScandal]

Quote from 1984

“Every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered.....history has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right.”

Would quite like a thread of quotes that sum up life in 2020 based on George Orwell’s 1984.

Please add the ones that resonate with you.

I'll have to go back, as it's some time since I've read them. I was hoping that it might jog someone's memory

I think one of the reasons that Orwell and Huxley's work appear to be so prophetic is that they were both students of history, and were able to see the tactics used to control groups over the entire course of human history, and present them in a relatable way.

They were not so much warning us in some prophetic way, as much as they were saying...this has happened over and over and over again, and this is how it happens...

Very true @samyeagar - not thought of it that way before.

"How many fingers am I holding up?" {Four) "And if the party says it is not four but five, then how many?"

Just typing that has made my heart start thudding. I know I would break and say whatever I was told to say. I can't bear to read that passage but it is so powerful. One day I hope I'll have the nerve to say that to our Labour MP when he parrots TWAW.

@Thinkingabout1t

"How many fingers am I holding up?" {Four) "And if the party says it is not four but five, then how many?"

Just typing that has made my heart start thudding. I know I would break and say whatever I was told to say. I can't bear to read that passage but it is so powerful. One day I hope I'll have the nerve to say that to our Labour MP when he parrots TWAW.

This kind of thing is the origin of the term political correctness. I remember trying for years to tell this to people who insisted it just meant being polite.

Ninety Eighty-Four has been my favourite book since I first read it (22 years ago!)

Alas I've not been able to inspire many people to read it as I've always described it as "the most depressing thing I've ever read"

I've had arguments with people at work about it. Several 10/15 years younger than me colleagues had never heard of book nor author . I almost cried. I bought my copy in and proposed lunchtime reading sessions... oddly this was never taken up

Now I'm hearing it being bandied about by everyone. Non readers of the book telling ME how "1984-esque" things are. FUCK. OFF.

I haven't read whole thread, nor am I a regular on this board, but I needed to rant!!

This kind of thing is the origin of the term political correctness. I remember trying for years to tell this to people who insisted it just meant being polite.

They've forgotten, or never heard of, times and places where people considered politically incorrect would be killed. Another poster said her colleagues had never heard of Orwell or 1984! It really is true that those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Yes, but to a large degree the state being used by these other actors to accomplish their goals, pushing it in one way or another. Pushing through laws and regulations, giving training, calling the police to make complaints.

If you have a Marxist understanding of the state as a machine used by the ruling class to impose its will on the rest of society, then it is perfectly possible to envisage that other non- or semi-state organisations can be used in the same way, such as the huge number of quangos, public and third sector organisations and lobby groups.

In any case, you have seen the behaviour of the police, which nobody can deny is part of the state.

For me, in this age of fake news and being on the cusp of being forced to say men can turn into women, it is this for me:

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. His heart sank as he thought of the enormous power arrayed against him, the ease with which any Party intellectual would overthrow him in debate, the subtle arguments which he would not be able to understand, much less answer. And yet he was in the right! They were wrong and he was right.

I'm not sure why but it brings.me to tears when I read it.

@BlackForestCake

Yes, but to a large degree the state being used by these other actors to accomplish their goals, pushing it in one way or another. Pushing through laws and regulations, giving training, calling the police to make complaints.

If you have a Marxist understanding of the state as a machine used by the ruling class to impose its will on the rest of society, then it is perfectly possible to envisage that other non- or semi-state organisations can be used in the same way, such as the huge number of quangos, public and third sector organisations and lobby groups.

In any case, you have seen the behaviour of the police, which nobody can deny is part of the state.

Um, yeah, that's what I am saying. The state is a tool, not something enacting its own vision. In a way it doesn't have a vision and maybe that's the problem.

Speaking of literary references it reminds me of the Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson, where corporate actors effectively become the world powers and try to absorb governments.

If we aren't careful about standing against this, we could easily leave the real perpetrators intact with their wealth while we disempower the state which might control them.

@tamingtoddler dont think my two ds have read his books one did gcse last year and one currently doing

Not read the fucking thread.

Buy George Orwell 'why I write'

Collection of essays

It's all instructive. Last essay is pertinent.

Highly recommended.

Seriously for orwell fans.

But it. Read it.

Man was a genius.

He talks about language, politics. Pre cursor to 1984.

You won't that regret it. Fiver on Amazon.

And here we have a classic TRA move, turning it upside down so that GC people are Orwellian and actually it's great to erase words/change their meaning/remove objective truth from language ...

... and then admits they haven't even read it!

TRA transplains Newspeak for us all, and proudly states s/he hasn’t read 1984 but has watched a Youtube video about it. Be fair, AmericanSlang, in TR terms that’s equivalent to PhD-level research!

Wow, Americanslang, that first image you posted. The twisting of language and reality, twisting 1984 to serve their own purposes. That in itself is very Orwellian.

Thinkingabout1t yeah, I guess they probably allow Wikipedia references in your thesis these days, and "I saw something about it on the INteRnEt" in the bibliography :/ poor Orwell being misused in this manner, makes me mad

When I was at university 20 years ago I learned about Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault and post-modern theory, aka 'There is no such thing as objective truth'.

I believe I assumed it was a niche academic philosophy and would remain so. I now know it didn't. Instead it permeated mainstream culture.

Incidentally I spent 4 years studying English literature and Orwell didn't appear on a single reading list. I assume that's still the case. So I was an English literature graduate who for many years (until last year, believe it or not) had not read 1984.

I had read Animal Farm, I think, at school.

Kayaking I can imagine Orwell went out of style as the postmodernists became ascendant - I read 1984 when I was 17 (probably to look intellectual!) and there was an Orwell option when I did my English Literature degree 35 years ago. Incidentally I tried going back to uni to study for an MA 20 years ago, when my daughter had started middle school, but gave it up after a few weeks because the entire syllabus was unintelligible postmodern bullshit

"He who controls the past controls the future."

This is a very important point.

This is why I would recommend all readers here to educate themselves as to how easy it is to manipulate memories and create false histories.

It is not simply about the satanic panic, psychiatric malpractice and related issues, although they are extremely important things for readers to understand.

It is about how what we believe to be reality can become contaminated by falsehood, how innocent people can be groomed into believing they committed crimes when they did not and how vulnerable people can be groomed to become pawns in the power games of criminals.

I would recommend this documentary highly

www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/american-soviet-mentality
Article about the witch hunting on American campuses. What would Orwell have to say?

I feel like my IQ has gone up a couple of points just reading this thread. Thank you for your contributions. I remember someone in first year at university (20 years ago) doing a "knowledge and reality" philosophy module and came back from lectures twittering on about there being no objective reality. We all just laughed about it because we were a group of chemistry, physics and maths students mostly. I was considered soft for doing biology! So we just dismissed it as a nonsense thought exercise. Going down all these rabbit holes now I'm seeing how it all comes back to that. I took a philosophy module that year too, but stuck to ethics. It seemed more useful that arguing over whether a red pencil case was really red.

Haha - I usually feel mine goes down when I wander into twitterland!

You cannot make this up. Or maybe Orwell would.
nypost.com/2020/06/23/oregon-county-issues-face-mask-order-exempting-non-white-people/