Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

I'm with you- LGB makes complete sense.

Billi77, please explain how a group that includes men can be a women's group.

Lesbian feminist woman for me. No such thing as the alphabet community. Been in too women and lesbian groups over 40 years destroyed by the men pushing their way in.

So sorry to hear that resister.

Many of us women have coasted on the wake of other womens hard and outspoken battles.* No more.

Let them burn it down.

Women (of all hues, ways and sororities) will build it all up again; and learn the lesson to not use the double plus good words of News speak that allows men to infiltrate our places and spaces.

Yes. LGBTQ erases me as a lesbian. Stonewall erases me as a lesbian

I’m bewildered. Please explain how gathering with women is misogynistic?

No, you aren't.
Calling a mixed sex group a women only group is covered under the 8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

@Billi77 I’m part of a few women only groups. Well, a book/film club and a netball team. We have trans women in both groups.
We are all feminists and nobody is transphobic

The ability to distinguish between recognising trans women as women for certain social settings vs being forced to believe that they are literal biological women, without being denounced/terrorised is one of many things being torn down by current trans ideology.

More importantly: you're (perhaps not individually, but the group as a whole are) able to choose whether or not to include trans women in these spaces. You could safely speak up about a Karen White-esque individual. You're all adults so you don't need to worry about promising a child to keep their gender identity, and its acceptance by the whole school, a secret from their parents. You're not being forced to accept trans women (a category which 20 years ago meant transsexual who would never make the assertion that they were 'biologically female') - and much more importantly, and the point that keeps being missed whenever people denounce anyone concerned, abusive men who will exploit this stuff because abusive men will exploit whatever is available.

I grew up Catholic. #notallpriests but enough of them abused children. Repeatedly. Today in many countries, it is far easier to identify as a woman than to become a priest. Noting this does not mean I am a 'transphobe'. Like so many women concerned about this issue, I don't think trans people have a particular proclivity for assault or violence; I do think that violent men are taking advantage where they can, which is what violent and abusive men do.

This stuff should not seem 'radical'. It's not.

I am a lesbian, not an LGBTQWERTYUIOP+++.

I am a lesbian, not queer.

I am a lesbian, not a gay woman.
LESBIAN!

I’m part of a few women only groups. Well, a book/film club and a netball team. We have trans women in both groups.
We are all feminists and nobody is transphobic.

Book group. Fine. Sounds lovely.

Netball team, does the trans women not have an unfair advantage over the other women? Surely a mixed sex team would be more appropriate? Competitive sport comes under one of the Equality Act exceptions and it would not be against the law to make your team a female only, born female team.

Bi woman agreeing with you here.

My workplace has been stonewalled. The rainbow lanyards make me wince.

The Baroness referred to "the LGB & T communities" in her letter to the CEO of ASDA regarding their partnership with Diversity Role Models. It has a ring to it, could catch on. I'll use it from now on.

@Shedbuilder

Billi77, please explain how a group that includes men can be a women's group.

That’s just cruel. If your female gender is defined by how badly you’ve been treated by men, she’s the most female of all of us. She’s also the crappest player on the team Sappho so no unfair advantage there. We are hardly headed towards the olympics..

If your female gender is defined by how badly you’ve been treated by men, she’s the most female of all of us

I've worked with young men who have been on the streets. some were gay, some were straight, some liked dressing up, some were forced to dress up.
Collectively, what they had in common was having the bejayzus beaten out of them, being raped, drugged and abused by other men.

It does not make any of them female because they were badly treated by men.

Cruel is allowing male people to compete with female (winning medals and scholarships), to present a male person to a female victim and say well you asked for a woman doctor/ therapist/
police officer, to tell a little girl that she must treat her classmate as a girl (penis and all) in the changing rooms and loos, to tell your granny that it’s a ‘lady’ in the bed next to her in hospital, to watch a part time woman take a business award because he self ids as a woman on certain days, to have womans spaces taken away (so swimming times and gym sessions - so some women just can’t attend on the basis or religion, fear, etc)...

‘Cruel’ - imagine how that actually feels and then say again that it’s cruel to exclude males from female groups/sessions/areas.

Billi77, it is not “cruel”, it is the truth. A group that includes men, regardless of how they “identify” their “gender”, is de facto a mixed sex group. Calling it a women’s group is simply denying reality or gaslighting.
I imagine any devout Muslim or orthodox Jewish woman coming along to join your group would have to exclude herself, due to the presence of men. So your supposedly feminist group is not even accessible for all women.

Hahahahaha - joke right?

Evolution - look it up. Humans might end up missing our little toes eventually but the ability to change sex... what possible evolutionary benefit would that provide to the species?

And you know that T is a insult so...

Then it’s all about perception?

It's about reality.

Other people's grip on reality.

Actual facts.

That you will not be able to control everyone's minds, speech and behaviour to support someone's personal reality at all times, particularly when this harms other people's freedoms and civil rights.

Male people choosing different identities are no less or more important than female people who need sex based rights. Female people have the right not to be excluded from the world because of male people's choices.

And being 'folded like a deckchair' and unable to compete in a world where men and women's sports are dominated by males,

or enter any toilets,

or access health care

or access a refuge when in fear of you and your children's lives

or be allowed to be homosexual

or have any group where you allowed to meet and talk about female issues without male presence and supervision?

What exactly do you think is in this for the 51% of the human population you seem to see as so utterly insignificant that they shouldn't even mention their biology or their specific needs regarding it?

I am not a support human. Neither is any other female.

If your female gender is defined by how badly you’ve been treated by men, she’s the most female of all of us.

It's not, though, Billi, is it? You're making it all up as you go along.

Then it’s all about perception?
Some people see trans women as women, others see them as men, no matter how they self identify. I suppose there’s no changing the stubborn TERF mindset.

That’s a cruel world for a trans girl to grow up in.
Luckily things willevolve.

TERFs, huh?

If your female gender is defined by how badly you’ve been treated by men, she’s the most female of all of us.

There is no such thing as a ‘female gender’.

There are two sexes female and male (female = of the sex that bears ovum - as seen in all other mammals too)

And gender is stereotyped roles and behaviour ie feminine and masculine interests or clothing. I’m sure some people have been treated very badly by men because of these choices, but that doesn’t suddenly give you the type of body that beats ovum from birth.

*bears ovum.

Should not type without reading glasses!

@Michelleoftheresistance

And being 'folded like a deckchair' and unable to compete in a world where men and women's sports are dominated by males,

or enter any toilets,

or access health care

or access a refuge when in fear of you and your children's lives

or be allowed to be homosexual

or have any group where you allowed to meet and talk about female issues without male presence and supervision?

What exactly do you think is in this for the 51% of the human population you seem to see as so utterly insignificant that they shouldn't even mention their biology or their specific needs regarding it?

I am not a support human. Neither is any other female.

What exactly do you think is in this for the 51% of the human population you seem to see as so utterly insignificant that they shouldn't even mention their biology or their specific needs regarding it?

How do you think I (a female feminist lesbian) see women as insignificant?

I’m curious.

As for perception and reality, isn’t everyone’s version of reality different? Therefore it’s all perception.

We can still be kind to others who have done no harm to us and challenge those who have. This is social evolution simplified where I am concerned. Adding Q, T, whatever else to the unpronounceable alphabetical compound, as silly as it seems, is still a compassionate response. So where is the harm in that ?