Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

BaronessBrighterThanYou There are no circumstances where it would be controversial for a lesbian to state she does not sleep with males. That is what being a lesbian means.

Out of interest, do you agree with the following statements?

‘You do not have to like men. You do not have to date men or have sex with men.’

‘You should not have to do anything without consent.’

‘You should never feel pressure to have sex with somebody’

Those screenshots aren't "anti trans" they are statements of disagreement with a strange ideology. An ideology which states as fact that people can change sex. Without any evidence.

Why does disagreement = "anti"? Is this newspeak?

In a world where a woman stating her objection to being called a "menstruator", or saying that males can't be lesbians, or that women's groups should be allowed to exclude males - are all considered "anti-trans", refusing to go along with the ideology is bound to attract the accusation.

I saw a poster when I was driving (a proper paid for advert on a bus shelter) that appeared to be from Pride and had the words Intersex in huge letters on it.
I couldn't read it as I was driving, but since when has intersex been a sexual orientation?
It is a biological condition.
Ditto asexuality- that's not a sexual orientation.

LGB only for me.
And I think purple had it right earlier today, at 9:42.

I find the attempts to normalise fetishes insidious.

Of course I agree.

Out of interest why did you ask me those questions?

Would you now be kind enough to address my points/questions? I repeat them here:

But, saying that same thing in a similar group (for trans or queer theory people) would be very contentious indeed.

Are you saying that you (and all your lesbian pals) have no idea that this is the case?

Seriously?

It's like you've never heard of the cotton ceiling..

I’m with you OP.

Sapphos

Out of interest, do you agree with the following statements?

‘You do not have to like men. You do not have to date men or have sex with men.’

To be clear, can that statement also be read as "You do not have to like men or transwomen". You do not have to date men or transwomen or have sex with men or transwomen."

Do you agree with the statement "transwomen are male, therefore transwomen cannot be lesbians?"

@7ofNine

I saw a poster when I was driving (a proper paid for advert on a bus shelter) that appeared to be from Pride and had the words Intersex in huge letters on it. I couldn't read it as I was driving, but since when has intersex been a sexual orientation? It is a biological condition. Ditto asexuality- that's not a sexual orientation.

LGB only for me.
And I think purple had it right earlier today, at 9:42.

I find the attempts to normalise fetishes insidious.

7ofnine on the topic of intersex - this was posted on the LGBT+ police UK Twitter page yesterday.

mobile.twitter.com/LGBTpoliceuk/status/1273572570256850949

Sigh.

So the LGB Alliance was formed by people who don't have a problem, to focus on how to handle the attack on their rights and use of their name in a problem that doesn't exist, and because they want to talk about homosexuality and not transgenderism they're bad anyway.

Ooooookay.

The sole reason they formed was because in all T dominant situations LGB are marginalised. They have been used as a veneer to force T agenda. The T political lobby based movement of which Stonewall is part, is intrinsically homophobic and incompatible with homosexual people's rights. And the issue had become so severe and the impact upon Stonewall's actions so serious that the group split.

It is impossible - as it is here when female people try to discuss their rights under the onslaught of assault and harm being done by a certain political movement - to do anything or talk about anything to stand up for those people, needs and rights without reference to the oppressing group. However there will be constant scolding involved for mentioning the group causing the issues, or talking about the issues, with much gaslighting that it doesn't really happen anyway and their nine million carefully polled friends and their aunt's godmother's goldfish is fine with it. (This thing that doesn't happen anyway).

Lurkers: if you want to know the gaslighting, denial, silencing and harm to lesbians inherent in this political movement, please just read this thread. Look for yourself. And note that those who scold others about tolerating other people's opinions are always the same ones who show least acceptance or support of any lesbian who feels or thinks or has experienced anything other than what the scolder does.

Note too, that those negative experiences should be of concern to and heard by a community claiming to care about the whole range of experience of females who are homosexual. If they cared. And if they centred females or even homosexual people. Instead the usual posters rush onto a thread where the word lesbian appears and will post endlessly to derail and deny and slur female people trying to talk.

Who silences and erases female experience? Ooh look, it's that political movement again.

Oh look, we're onto the 'you can't define what lesbian is anyway' (and we'll use the very rude, trans lobby created slur 'gold star' lesbian to shame and silence females a bit more for the benefit of male people) bit now.

BaronessBrighterThanYou

Those statements are what that awful Riley Dennis says in that video posted up thread. So even the most hardened of trans activists are generally not pressuring lesbians to sleep with males.

Therefore, no I don't agree that it would be contentious for a lesbian to say she doesn't sleep with males in a trans or queer space.

Do you agree with the statement "transwomen are male, therefore transwomen cannot be lesbians?"

Yes, completely agree.

Oh come on @Michelleoftheresistance you can blame a lot of things on the trans lobby but not 'gold star' - that's been around since the days of Spare Rib.

Lurkers: if you want to know the gaslighting, denial, silencing and harm to lesbians inherent in this political movement, please just read this thread. Look for yourself. And note that those who scold others about tolerating other people's opinions are always the same ones who show least acceptance or support of any lesbian who feels or thinks or has experienced anything other than what the scolder does.

Mainly a lurker, there are so many of us. We can see exactly what is happening on the thread.

Michelle you are a remarkable woman. My heart bursts with pride for you.

• that's pride with a small p

Jacki

.. no I don't agree that it would be contentious for a lesbian to say she doesn't sleep with males..

It shouldn't be, should it? We can agree on that.

@Shedbuilder I hope it’s ok to post links to further threads here? If you’d rather i don’t that’s totally understandable, but there are a couple I’d like to add to the discussion for the benefit of those of who might want or need further insight?

Ignore that last question mark - I’ve obviously lost my ability to properly punctuate!

Im a dreadful fence sitter...i know i am, i always argue both sides. Ive even argued a side on fox hunting I didn’t believe and won

And threads like these go a little way to persuading me to stay on my fence til I’m sure of my facts and opinions

I am happy to believe that there are some lesbians who haven’t been told they should be happy to have PIV sex and some that have. That seems logical to me

What I’m not prepared to believe is that it categorically never happens, i know it happens, my very precious first born son has seen and heard it for himself (cept he is being ‘told off’ for really really NOT wanting PIV sex)

Things like that make me get off my safe little perch

Yay. I can drop all the extra letters and when corrected (and I will be) say it's at the request of some lesbian friends.

Whatever you want, Ninkanink, let's see where we end up.

It's at the request of some lesbian friends
With you on that.
I've donated to LGB also. Power to them.

Thanks! I believe they’re broadly in line with this discussion.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3621239-Being-a-homosexual-female-in-a-community-of-queer-people-transbians-and-penis-inclusionary-lesbians

Will take me a while to find the others as I think they were comments rather than threads. I’ll pop back in at some point.