Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

Excuse the spelling mistakes as my glasses are broken. I’m trying to identify as having 20/20 vision, but it’s not working for some reason. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Bi women would be directly affected by LGB splitting from T, straight women are not.

Any straight woman who claims trans people are infringing on lesbian spaces but have ever set foot in a gay bar are massive hypocrites.

I thought

That i read

That the LGB group were more than happy to have transpeople in the group

I’m really not going to search it out, but can anyone remember? Does it say categorically either way?

I very much doubt many on this board have ever had any sort of contact with trans people either.

Oh sorry, and for the avoidance of any doubt

I would be very grateful for a link or a...’its on page 24 Rufus’

Not unhappy with a fuck off and find it your self...cos i am being lazy, but usually when people tell you that some thing or someone is very ‘anything‘ and to research it yourself Its cos they don’t actually know

@FloralBunting

I don't surround myself with only people just like me; I make sure we have a diverse team with differing perspectives, strengths and talents that help us all to work to shared goals. Our differences allow us achieve at a higher level as we can tap into different abilities and consider different viewpoints.

Well, if we can take the ad absurdum the other way from the 'exclusion' direction - if that's the case, what's the point of the community acronym in the first place? If ever expanding inclusion is the virtue here, who is the gatekeeper for the LGBTQIA+ community? If anyone can be part of the expansive group of diverse identities, and at the same time it's a group of people who in some way don't fit into the norms, then it's both by definition creating a division between LGBTQIA+ people and people who fit the norms, and completely pointless.

Why are people so insistent on gatekeeping? I don't really think it's necessary. If people feel that group is a right fit for them they are very welcome as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to police them at the door and get them to pull their trousers down like Nazis in Germany looking for Jewish males.

These debates often centre on extreme scenarios that are then used to justify hostility to an entire group. The reality is that, certainly in my opinion and that of others on here - this is not what is playing out on the ground.

Our communities are generally diverse and welcoming. 'Lady dick' or arguments similar to it seem to come up all the time on boards - but they have no bearing on our lived realities.

They are used as an ideological tool try to split us and divide us, and sew the seeds of disharmony when there were few originally. And this is done by our 'allies' apparently.

But it is nice to see bi women getting a break! They are the ones that have come in for these divisive tactics in the past!

Sapphos - my bar hopping days are long gone! So I wouldn't know to what extent they are overrun by straight people these days.

I do remember gay male friends getting pissed off when Canal Street in Manchester ended up full of hen parties...

You said 'gay bar' - what about lesbian bars? Are they still a thing?

Used to be, years ago, when I was living in the U.K.

I appreciate the support from straight allies.
Me too!

EmpressLangClegSpartacus

Well, it’s not as if Stonewall are a friend to lesbians nowadays. I appreciate the support from straight allies

It's pretty much the whole premise of shedbuilders thread.

Dd went to the local gay bar with her brother (shes straight but not a hypocrite by sapphos rules)

She came home full of her new female friend she had made who was really lovely and had bought her a drink and chatted to her all night

The fact that she was in a gay bar had gone right over her head

I find it interesting that so many straight women on this thread are invested in breaking the LGB away from the T when it doesn't affect straight women at all

Straight women do not live in a vacuum of being straight.

They have family, friends, children, colleagues, who are same sex attracted. They talk, they help, they support, they learn what the issues are.

Of course straight women should be allies. Why should they not be?

For others to be able to listen to and support lesbians, lesbians have to be able to come together, and identify the issues that affect them, in the first place.

Other women who are concerned, listen and support, as allies.

There are always those with their own agenda who will find any reason possible to stop lesbians self organising. Any women for that matter. Why? Because they are scared of women organising,

This is FWR, it's got a strong history of helping women organise for a variety of reasons.
You don't have to be disabled to support disability rights.
You don't have to be black to feel that Black Lives Matter.
You don't have to be a mother to think there should be free school meals for those who can't afford it.

FWR is not about finding reasons why a group of women should not come together, and why other women should not support them.

What Jacki said. Fantastic post.

And why make assumptions that women posting here must be Straight. This is FWR so it will attract a lot of lesbian and Bi women because, you know, women-loving-women. Women supporting women. Women prioritizing women.

Agreed Jacki.

Mother of a lesbian teenager here.

I'd like her to have access to women only AND lesbian only spaces when she's older.

jacki

👏🏻

RufustheRowlingReindeer great example with your DD - exactly how things should be.

Assume you would have been equally supportive of your DD meeting a new trans woman friend in the gay bar? I think gay bars should be safe spaces for everyone from the LGBT+ community.

If I am wrong, and you think LGB should be separated from T then are you suggesting trans women should give up their safe spaces and make way for straight women such as your DD to go to gay bars and meet lovely, new friends? Because that's a bit nuts.

Another point is, by trying to exclude people who are trans there is actually a fair amount of shooting selves in feet that is going on.

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is a lot of concern that trans teens are electing to undergo surgeries that they might later come to regret. Who do you think it is that can give them a broader context to their experiences? Who can empathise with their feelings and gently nudge them to consider other alternatives?

When these young trans people are welcomed into broader groups that include lesbians they can talk in more detail about their feelings and worries and listen to how older people have navigated perhaps similar difficulties without having surgery.

I don't know if gender reassignment clinics go into details of strap ons, best type to achieve orgasm by wearer etc, the benefits of being able to swap in hundreds of different types as partners will all have different preferences and different desires at different times. We are the ones that can have those real conversations and perhaps be instrumental in a trans person's journey and consideration of surgery.

By polarising the identities, by excluding the T, or by making trans people feel unwelcome in spaces you are making those conversations less likely to happen.

purplecrowbar

That would be ideal wouldn't it.

Female only groups AND lesbian only groups. The ability to meet up without having to explain oneself.

lesbianalliance.org.uk/about/

Again, a different view.

What a lot of bs going on here! Women, you need advice from men at all times!

I assume if the trans person is a girl Or a woman worried that they must be a man because they fancy girls/women then they will be welcome

The idea that boys/men should be welcome into groups for lesbians to discuss strap ons and orgasms is completely creepy

My niece is a transman and everyone else around her has unequivocally affirmed her decision to transition.

She knows that I disagree and also that I love her. She knows that I have her back, and that if she changed her mind about transitioning I'd do everything I could to help her.

It's useful for people to know that if they change their mind about transitioning that there is someone they can talk to.

I'd welcome any transman into a woman's space because they are female. Transwomen, no. Because they're not.

This is not anti T thread. As usual a minority are deliberately trying to derail it. So terrified it seems of self organising.

I was campaigning for trans rights thirty years ago. When it was scary to be on Pride. When Stephen Whittle and co were keeping their heads well down. So fuck right off with that disingenuous crap. I'm not the one living in a bubble here.

I'd feel a lot happier these days, if the so called modern day T were dissociating themselves from the MAPs and so on. I don't see it. I hope that they do.

There is an obsession on this thread, from a few, as to why same sex attracted can't organise themselves?

It reminds me of the older white men I used to see in the trade unions shouting "it will never work" when we argued to set up BAME sections, for instance.

The reason we were arguing for BAME sections was because the white male dominated trades unions weren't listening, nor organising in support of their BAME members. The people, usually, with the worst terms and conditions.

They had to self organise to identify the issues, and get their voices heard. the rest became their allies to improve workplace conditions.That's how you get positive change. Positive change benefits everyone.

We've left a group of young women and young men behind. They need support. They are asking women as allies to support them as LGB.
I'm ok with that.

It does not mean that I/we can't support others elsewhere. How ridiculous to suggest that.

The anecodotel evidence of family, friends and lesbians on the thread here, says there is no/very little funded dedicated support for young lesbians in 2020. I agree, that's my experience too.

That's an absolute scandal.

Jacki 💪💪💪

*apols for typos, another person with poor eyesight

What jacki said 👏🏻