Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

I guess if it crops up on their pages from this date onwards that might be telling after the posts on here.

It really, really won't.

I hope admins would not allow people from here to troll it

🤣🤣🤣

Fanta you win the prize for the most vivid imagination on the thread

You crack me up Sapphos 🤣👀

@BarbieandKenBruce

To those who are happy with LGBT+ rather than LGB and T separately, I read the previous post about how you're friends are still your friends and deserve support if they were say a lesbian and then identified as a transman. I just wondered if you'd be happy to share how uncoupling the T from the LGB would affect this in your mind. I sort of see them for advocating for different things, if they existed as separate entities would you feel you couldn't support your friends as well? I am interested in the meaning of this particular umbrella to you because my instinct is that I can be friends with and support people who have unique needs I or a different advocacy group which represents them personally, it wouldn't take an organisation but rather a relationship. I can understand if we were talking about erasing the T all together, but why is uncoupling them so bad? I know LGBT+ is considered as being a community, and I would like to listen to your sense of what would happen to that community should the T be separated if you are happy to share. Thank you.

I’m quoting this to boost it up as it’s a sincere question that might get lost at the bottom of the previous page.

Fanta you win the prize for the most vivid imagination on the thread. Keep on telling yourself the lesbian group has 'mostly male readers' if it makes you feel better. Its so easily disproved it just makes you look daft.

I realise many people struggle with both words and figures, and can think the words "large chunk" means "mostly". The less understandable part is thinking I look daft when you are the one not understanding words.

Yeah, absolutely OP. I have seen some pro trans organisations writing BGTQ etc which says it all, I think. Either lesbians drop the alphabet soup or the soup will spit out lesbians. And as a bisexual woman, I know which side i'm on.

Diva is so busy asking males about the questions they get about their sex lives they forgot to employ people with basic literacy skills:

@BarbieandKenBruce

To those who are happy with LGBT+ rather than LGB and T separately, I read the previous post about how you're friends are still your friends and deserve support if they were say a lesbian and then identified as a transman. I just wondered if you'd be happy to share how uncoupling the T from the LGB would affect this in your mind. I sort of see them for advocating for different things, if they existed as separate entities would you feel you couldn't support your friends as well? I am interested in the meaning of this particular umbrella to you because my instinct is that I can be friends with and support people who have unique needs I or a different advocacy group which represents them personally, it wouldn't take an organisation but rather a relationship. I can understand if we were talking about erasing the T all together, but why is uncoupling them so bad? I know LGBT+ is considered as being a community, and I would like to listen to your sense of what would happen to that community should the T be separated if you are happy to share. Thank you.

I don't believe in division, divisiveness and unncessary alienation. Removing those letters tells those identities that they are not welcome anymore, and that's not how I feel. Why would I want to further marginalise a vulnerable population that experiences enough segregation already, without it also coming from its own community?

We have shared backgrounds and experiences - as I've already said, in my experience many transmen have previously identified as lesbians.

Yes, the different identities within the umbrella all have unique needs and difficulties and I can respect that and the fact that everyone may prioritise and work towards different issues - it doesn't mean I need to kick them out.

If they 'existed as separate entities' as you put it of course I could support them the same myself. I'm just not supportive of an atmosphere that pits identities against each other and fosters hostile relations and conflict. 'Uncoupling', to me, will promote further ideological differences; it will increase polarisation and the atmosphere of 'us vs them' - with all the ingroup / outgroup biases that brings.

I don't want that for my community. But I can see how it is happening and it saddens me.

in my experience many transmen have previously identified as lesbians.
That's interesting.

I'm just not supportive of an atmosphere that pits identities against each other

Lesbians aren’t ‘identifying’ as lesbian. They ARE lesbian. The only people who ‘identify’ as lesbian are male bodied people. Big difference.

lesbianalliance.org.uk/about/

Lesbian opinions on the so called community.

@BarbieandKenBruce If a lesbian wants to disassociate herself from LGBT and just be LGB that's her choice.

The OP is claiming that allies must support uncoupling LGB from T. As a lesbian that is the last thing I want from allies, and the OP doesn't speak for me.

I know LGBT+ is considered as being a community, and I would like to listen to your sense of what would happen to that community should the T be separated if you are happy to share.

Yes it is a community. We all different but have one shared trait; we've all got a fundamental part of ourselves that is 'different' from the norm. None of us have chosen to be different, we can suppress it but we can't change it. We all know what it's like to face prejudice, discrimination and judgement. We've all had to navigate a world designed for straight, non trans people.

Separating the T from LGB is deliberately pitting two parts of the community against each other. It's setting up hostility where there doesn't need to be any.

I'm just not supportive of an atmosphere that pits identities against each other

Before I turn the light out and go to sleep, may I just make it clear that unlike the 'lesbians' in the Diva clip, I don't have a lesbian identity. I'm a woman and a lesbian and that's that. I don't do identity politics. Please stop forcing that on me/ us.

BarbieandKenBruce, excellent question. No one's kicking anyone out, no one's consigning anyone to oblivion. Transgender people can continue to be TQ+ and so on, and be a community of people united by belief in identity, LGB people can continue to be a community united by their homosexual sexuality. The two should never have been conflated and an amicable parting of the ways will allow both parties to do their own thing.

without it also coming from its own community?

This is the bit I don’t get - what is it that an AGP man who transitions in late middle age and a lesbian have in common that justifies them being part of a single community?

Bearing in mind that it’s only been 5 or so years since the T got added (and it wasn’t universally approved of at the time).

There is no LGBT community.
There are LGBT advocacy organizations. Transgender advocacy organizations. There are Lesbian communities and there are Gay communities.
It is a mistake to think that an advocacy organization can represent people with competing rights. The LGBT organizations present exclusive focus on promoting transitioning Gays and Lesbians is an example of why this is a mistake.

@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

without it also coming from its own community?

This is the bit I don’t get - what is it that an AGP man who transitions in late middle age and a lesbian have in common that justifies them being part of a single community?

Bearing in mind that it’s only been 5 or so years since the T got added (and it wasn’t universally approved of at the time).

What do we have in common? I imagine we both often present in ways that deviate from societal norms and expectations and so have had similar experiences related to that. I imagine we might both have experienced a degree of discrimination because of who we are. I imagine we might both have gone through periods of time supressing our identities. I imagine we have both had to navigate difficult conversations with friends. family and colleagues about who we are and who we're attracted to.

But we're not exactly the same, no. And thank goodness for it!

At work I don't surround myself with only people just like me; I make sure we have a diverse team with differing perspectives, strengths and talents that help us all to work to shared goals. Our differences allow us achieve at a higher level as we can tap into different abilities and consider different viewpoints.

I think division and segregation into groups with 'people only exactly like me' weakens us. It's like a narrow gene pool that breeds itself into deformity and obsoletion.

Fanta
I've just been reading the Lesbian Alliance pages. Thanks for linking.

They make the point that there does exist funded support of various kinds for trans youth groups,

However there is nothing funded for young lesbians. No dedicated school support, youth workers. Nowhere, it seems for them to find support.

I wish I could say that I was shocked to read it, but sadly I'm unsurprised.

suggestionsplease1 are you saying that you’re happy to help AGP males into your social circle?

Are you aware that MAP also want to be included under the umbrella? Do you think they should be welcomed too?

For anyone who doesn't know what Lillian means by MAP.

It is peodophile.

(Minor Attracted Person)

They want to be added to the expanding alphabet soup +

Excellent post @suggestionsplease1

I'll also refer back to my earlier question which nobody answered re the criteria for people who come under the L, G and B categories. Should they be split out as well? Gay men and lesbians are completely different sexes and bisexual women sleep with men and lesbians don't. Do they really have anything in common? How should that be decided?

Assuming LGB stay as one group, who is allowed to be part of it? Obviously no trans women. How about trans men? Non binary females attracted to other females? What about people like me, adult human females exclusively attracted to other adult human females but also proud to be part of the LGBTQ family. Would we be allowed in?

If it's a lesbian only group then must all members be gold star lesbians? If so would a past encounter with a male count again them? What if it was just the once? What if there was no PIV involved?

As suggestionsplease1 points out, the group can be narrowed down so much that all of a sudden there's nobody left. Surely it's better to be part of a wider, supportive community?

Thanks for the link Fanta

I'll also refer back to my earlier question which nobody answered re the criteria for people who come under the L, G and B categories. Should they be split out as well? Gay men and lesbians are completely different sexes and bisexual women sleep with men and lesbians don't. Do they really have anything in common? How should that be decided?

The bit they all have in common is SAME SEX ATTRACTION 😂😂😂

SAME SEX ATTRACTION

Same sex attraction.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong okay so if we're working purely on same sex attraction what about Katy Perry types who kissed a girl once and liked it? Are they in or out the LGB gang? Because there's a hell of a lot more of them than there is trans women and I'm not sure they have faced the same prejudices.

there is nothing funded for young lesbians

This was my experience as the mother of a young lesbian. Nothing exists in the 'queer' space to support them as same-sex oriented females with discrete needs.