Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

Perhaps the Diva readers, like many lesbians, don’t want to compromise an already extremely marginalised minority?

They're both Diva, Sappho's: one's the FB group, one's the magazine. Same constituency, surely?

To be clear, I have absolutely no problem with gay best friends or straight male best friends or men who like to wear make-up or men who prefer to socialise with women. The problem is when they decide they're women.

To all the lurkers.

Back to shedbuilders original OP.

There is a growing number of lesbians, and also gay men who are wanting to protect their hard won rights and not be attacked (either verbally, in written communications, or in person) or denigrated for their homosexuality.

Homosexuality is their commonality, and that is why they are asking for their community to be referred to as LGB (bi-sexual people may more often than not choose gay/same sex relationships over mixed-sex ones and that it is why it is LGB)

It is fair that their voices be heard and respected.

And in case anyone missed it , the LGB Alliance gives a very good space for lesbians, gay men and bi-sexual women and men to discuss this.

@PurpleHoodie

To all the lurkers.

Back to shedbuilders original OP.

There is a growing number of lesbians, and also gay men who are wanting to protect their hard won rights and not be attacked (either verbally, in written communications, or in person) or denigrated for their homosexuality.

Homosexuality is their commonality, and that is why they are asking for their community to be referred to as LGB (bi-sexual people may more often than not choose gay/same sex relationships over mixed-sex ones and that it is why it is LGB)

It is fair that their voices be heard and respected.

On the same note, there is a growing number of lesbians, gay men and bisexual people who are happy to support rather than compromise the trans minority, who are very very marginalised.

Nobody should be attacked or feel threatened for who they are. And voices should be heard; you’re right.

And where on earth has this specious argument come about 'lady dick' or lesbians being expected to have sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with come from?

Males.

On the same note, there is a growing number of lesbians, gay men and bisexual people who are happy to support rather than compromise the trans minority, who are very very marginalised.

Really? I’ve never seen as many lesbians or gay people on tv, as I have trans. I’ve never seen any organisation able to enter schools and persuade those in charge of education to completely disregard the rules regarding separate toilets for girls and boys. I’ve never seen any group of people being able to go into libraries, in order to do story time, without any background checks. I’ve never seen as many groups being able to get legislations changed without their being any public knowledge or consultation. I’ve never seen any other group of people in recent years being able to demand that women desist from discussIn their anatomy, biology and sex attractions, or be lab led bigots and exclusionary.

They are the least marginalised group I’ve ever seen in recent years.

The only people obsessed with lady dick are right here on FWR.

I'm sure if there was any hint of lady dick talk among the 5,000+ members of the lesbian Facebook group then Shed would have gleefully shared it. But there isn't. Because it's not a thing. Because it's a lesbian group. We talk about lesbian stuff. There is absolutely no centring of males going on.

But I'm obviously making this up too right?

The only people obsessed with lady dick are right here on FWR.

The only people obsessed with derailing the OP’s discussion, are those that refuse to accept that some male bodied people are bullying lesbians and to a lesser extent gay men.

It wasn’t women who coined the term lady dick and that is why MNHQ permit it to be used on here. It’s a term used amongst many male bodied people who identify as trans. If you don’t like it, take it up with them.

Haven't had time to check it out, Sappho's, but let's let anyone who's interested take a look, shall we.

Anyone who's interested should google FB Diva community and it should come up. It's a public group, looks commercial — boasts 5000 members. I've a very early start tomorrow so this will be my last post of the day.

Your persistence at trying to derail this thread is admirable, Sappho's. Is there a team of you?

I am sure a large chunk of the lesbians in the group will be male. The video on the Diva group has one same sex couple and two opposite sex couples. Diva has clearly expanded their readership to include males and females so they are not going to tolerate any posts or discussions that are not in line with their male welcome editorial policy. That video alone is evidence of the tone policing going on.

Anyway as many, many posters have explained their own experience of males trying to dominate lesbian space and the evidence that this is not true provided by Sappho shows clearly the exact opposite, I think we can all make up our own minds. Unlike anyone on Divas Facebook where the editorial team are making it up for you.

Sappho, if you think FWR is uniquely ladydique obsessed then I can only assume you’ve never looked at trans twitter?

@SapphosRock

The only people obsessed with lady dick are right here on FWR.

I'm sure if there was any hint of lady dick talk among the 5,000+ members of the lesbian Facebook group then Shed would have gleefully shared it. But there isn't. Because it's not a thing. Because it's a lesbian group. We talk about lesbian stuff. There is absolutely no centring of males going on.

But I'm obviously making this up too right?

I think so, yes. You have a history of doing so.

@Shedbuilder

Haven't had time to check it out, Sappho's, but let's let anyone who's interested take a look, shall we.

Anyone who's interested should google FB Diva community and it should come up. It's a public group, looks commercial — boasts 5000 members. I've a very early start tomorrow so this will be my last post of the day.

Your persistence at trying to derail this thread is admirable, Sappho's. Is there a team of you?

Derail this thread haha! That's really very reminiscent of the patriarchal attempts to silence women who have views that threaten them.

Derailing this thread presumably means those people trying to preserve the collective identity that is important to them, which others are trying to undermine and fracture because of their own ideologies?

And now there's been a call to arms to have MN posters to dissect lesbian social media pages for evidence of lady dick?!! FFS, why don't you just plant something there yourself and save everyone else the bother of looking?

@SapphosRock I'm not on facebook and don't go on FB Diva pages but I don't know if it's worth contacting whoever organises it to point out that there might be attempts to bring this ludicrous lady dick issue up in order to undermine their pages.

I guess if it crops up on their pages from this date onwards that might be telling after the posts on here.

There's no need to panic suggestionsplease1, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell Diva will allow a post that upsets its male readers.

We’re a bunch of (mostly) middle aged women, not 4channers planning psyops, you plonker 😂

@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

We’re a bunch of (mostly) middle aged women, not 4channers planning psyops, you plonker 😂

I've heard this place called Mumchan. 😀

I love the word plonker

Good lord, as if I'd be reading Diva Facebook content. AfterEllen and lesbian history groups are much more my cup of tea. At least I'm not likely to be called Queer and expected to accept it as part of my duty to accommodate everyone else's issues.

Thanks @suggestionsplease1 - luckily it's a private group and I hope admins would not allow people from here to troll it.

Fanta you win the prize for the most vivid imagination on the thread. Keep on telling yourself the lesbian group has 'mostly male readers' if it makes you feel better. Its so easily disproved it just makes you look daft.

Fanta you win the prize for the most vivid imagination on the thread

Really?

Have you seen suggestions posts

^^ 😂

To those who are happy with LGBT+ rather than LGB and T separately, I read the previous post about how you're friends are still your friends and deserve support if they were say a lesbian and then identified as a transman. I just wondered if you'd be happy to share how uncoupling the T from the LGB would affect this in your mind. I sort of see them for advocating for different things, if they existed as separate entities would you feel you couldn't support your friends as well?
I am interested in the meaning of this particular umbrella to you because my instinct is that I can be friends with and support people who have unique needs I or a different advocacy group which represents them personally, it wouldn't take an organisation but rather a relationship.
I can understand if we were talking about erasing the T all together, but why is uncoupling them so bad?
I know LGBT+ is considered as being a community, and I would like to listen to your sense of what would happen to that community should the T be separated if you are happy to share. Thank you.

Sorry, which post is the quote “mostly male readers” from? I’m too tired to scroll through all the pages to locate it