Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

Michelleoftheresistance you should ask the OP. She wrote it in the OP.

Right Michelle, so you're saying if you don't personally like something then nobody should benefit from it?

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it?

I'm not saying I just personally happen to dislike rainbows (and tacky umbrellas and anything sung by Kermit the Frog) but that for some lesbians this symbol has become something sinister and threatening, and those females have a real point.

Because of the ideology the political group behind the rainbow have chosen to endow it with.

You seem to be saying because the overall purpose of the rainbow is generally good (if you're not female or a lesbian) females should suck up the harm and exclusion to them for the greater good to males? I hear that argument a great deal.

My answer is still that I'm not a support human.

Said what in the OP?

What exactly am I supposed to be looking at?

SapphosRock, why the confusion? The words "It's by donor" are presumably comprehensible to a midwife, and not impossible for you to say?

And if you are so ashamed of it that you could not say it to a midwife, what on earth were you doing having a baby using AID? Tsk. I think it may be your convictions that are confused, to say the least.

(For the record, I am a straight woman and a founder member of the GLF UK, with straight and lesbian and gay and bi and trans and thoroughly muddled friends, and straight and lesbian and gay and bi and trans acquaintances whom I dislike, and I used to be happy to wear a rainbow lanyard until they were hijacked to be a symbol used by people who threaten women with battery and rape.)

MotR, the phrase being groped for is probably "making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame", which is indeed in the OP. Not quite the same thing, mind.

I am also a bit bemused by this idea of a rainbow lanyard being 'reassuring'.

Pregnancy isn't a dignified time in the best of situations.

I was quite fat in my childbearing years & got told quite a bit that I was doing self + offspring no favours. I also smoked when I was first pregnant & had been out on the piss regularly before realising I was pregnant. Tut tut.

Then there's all the women who don't have a partner/father of the baby to produce, for all manner of reasons.

I really don't think that 'I'm a lesbian so my partner/wife is a woman. I conceived via donor & I do/do not have the information you're asking for about the donor's blood group (or whatever)' is going to freak out a HCP in this day & age.

Maybe we should get all HCPs to wear lanyards saying 'I solemnly promise not to be a judgmental arse about any of my patients'? Or, y'know, we could just make that an expectation anyway?

Having heard much of T, and the debate surrounding T, on this thread.

I'd like to ask more of the Q. What/Who is Q?

OP/ LGB supporters. Why do you believe Q should be organising/campaiging outside of LGB?

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

You are assuming that every lesbian has the confidence to reveal their sexuality to a complete stranger, and if they don't then 'tsk' they have no right to have a baby.

This is an excellent example of straight privilege.

@PurpleCrowbarWhereIsLangCleg are you a lesbian? You don't say. If not then of course you wouldn't understand how a rainbow symbol would be reassuring. You haven't had to live in a world where you could be verbally or physically attacked for your sexuality. You haven't had the raised eyebrows, the stares the sniggers. The rainbow flag symbolises tolerance, acceptance and safety to many lesbians.

Well, personally I find it hugely offensive to be termed 'Queer' and anyone doing so by sticking it in an acronym to describe me will get short shrift.

So if the Q want to campaign for something, I'm more than happy for them to do it separately, especially as so many using the description haven't ever had it used as a slur, so they aren't 'reclaiming' anything.

Oh, get real, SapphosRock. Nine of the ten people I know who have conceived by donor are not lesbians, and none of them was asked whether they were doing it because their partner wasn't male. And if your partner was with you, it would be obvious that a woman with a female partner was likely to be a lesbian, and if she wasn't, it would not have been something you needed to worry about.

The tsk was because I am amazed you are a lesbian old enough to have a baby and still unable to say something so simple to a HCP.

And don't give me "you don't know what it's like to be verbally or physically attacked for your sexuality"! I am a woman: that is my sexuality. You think somehow that means I haven't been raped, groped, jeered at, threatened, told I am not a proper woman because I wear jeans, called "sir" because I have a deep voice, told not to go into the ladies' lavatory in a pub? Pah.

Does your partner accompany you to antenatal visits, Sapphos? I'm genuinely confused as to how you rock up as a lesbian couple and imagine the hcp will think your partner is the baby's father?

Seems as though the TRAs, having found considerable resistance from feminists and LGB people, have now glommed on to the black lives matter campaign. Be interesting to see how that pans out. (sorry for the derail)

You are assuming that every lesbian has the confidence to reveal their sexuality to a complete stranger, and if they don't then 'tsk' they have no right to have a baby.

I don't understand why you'd have to reveal your sexuality if you didn't want to?

Sappho's Rock: Asking allies not to wear them and to make LGBT a badge of shame and ignorance is the exact opposite of what they are intended for.

That's very mischievous. I'm not asking anyone not to wear a lanyard. I'm reflecting that just because someone went on a diversity training day and realised that wearing a rainbow lanyard might help their careers doesn't mean that they have any real understanding of LGB or T issues.

And yet again I repeat, the letter T has been stuck onto LGB without the consent and permission of LGB people by opportunists. Sticking those letters together will, in time, I hope be seen as an ignorant and shameful thing to do.

JiggeryWokery

Seems as though the TRAs, having found considerable resistance from feminists and LGB people, have now glommed on to the black lives matter campaign. Be interesting to see how that pans out.

Indeed.

The spike in suicides post transition bears witness to the fact that affirmation is not the compassionate response to someone suffering delusions or dysphoria. We do not affirm anorexics in their belief they are fat, nor do we agree that people who suffer xenomelia should have the amputations they desire. It is unacceptable and not in any way compassionate to affirm a male's delusion that his penis is a "lady dick".
There is nothing compassionate about reinforcing a harmful belief.

The rainbow flag symbolises tolerance, acceptance and safety to many lesbians.

The only Lesbians that is still true of are transgenders who identify as Lesbians. Most Lesbians now view it as a warning sign.

Seems as though the TRAs, having found considerable resistance from feminists and LGB people, have now glommed on to the black lives matter campaign. Be interesting to see how that pans out. (sorry for the derail)

The founder of the Black Trans Lives Matter campaign is self-confessed rapist Cherno Biko. www.womenarehuman.com/male-trans-rights-activist-who-identifies-as-woman-rapes-woman-cherno-biko/

@TehBewilderness

The rainbow flag symbolises tolerance, acceptance and safety to many lesbians.

The only Lesbians that is still true of are transgenders who identify as Lesbians. Most Lesbians now view it as a warning sign.

Source? Evidence?

This is a very controversial argument.

As someone who is bi AND has identity issues, I do agree sexuality and identity are two different things and could and probably should be separated.

I am all for identity being recognised in it's own right because identity issues effect people more than even those of us suffering with them realise. Some people like me live with them happily understanding them until an abusive predatory person uses it against you. And suddenly all that "harmless" coping stuff had actually made you susceptible to horrific abuse. I believe most trans people are suffering with identity issues similar to my own. Those that arent having identity issues aren't out shouting or demanding women's rights because they're comfortable with themselves. Of course some people with identity issues are just LGB aswell

But I do agree with you and I have no idea why the two things have become permanently conflated.

I have some points about maternity care. To the question - partner's blood type? you could say 'father's blood type is unknown/A+' etc or 'my partner is not the father, the father's blood type is....' and you wouldn't have to reveal your sexuality if you didn't want to. Straight women can be in situations in which they would answer similarly. The other way to put it is 'father's blood type?' as a question but this can cause confusion regarding whether the question is about the baby's father or the woman's father. There is also a debate about whether using 'father' is exclusionary but as PP said, it's incredibly important we know the facts and this is kind of what we need to ask. There is definitely a debate to be had regarding more inclusive language but the language already used is not arbitrary and factual enquiries aren't always assumptions. Matters around conception/family set up are an important part of maternity care and I do feel you would be impacting on your own care if you couldn't discuss this. I'm glad a lanyard would help you personally but I agree with how it could also be a deterrent for other lesbians and straight women, especially in a healthcare setting where sex based rights are relevant.
Also regarding 'last unprotected sex' question, I disagree this should be 'any chance you could be pregnant' although both are helpful. I work in women's health, the amount of times a woman has denied there is any chance she could be pregnant, but then you ask about unprotected sex and oh yes they did have some and it was over their fertile period but he pulled out/said he couldn't have babies/I showered up there afterward etc is not small, and it's vital information especially if you are inserting IUDs etc. If you are a lesbian there should be space for you to say 'not applicable' or 'IUI on such a such date'. These aren't prejudiced questions designed to cater only to straight people or ones forcing you to reveal your sexuality if you aren't comfortable, they're just trying to establish facts.
Like I said I work in women's health. I would listen to all feedback on how to improve our services and use more inclusive language. On balance I wouldn't wear a rainbow lanyard and would hope my rapport with patients allowed them to reveal pertinent information that may be difficult for them to share, as most HCPs rely on. I hope there can be a visual symbol to make this easier for some groups such as lesbians to let them know I support them and care about their specific needs, but question whether the rainbow symbol is the right way to go.

Does your partner accompany you to antenatal visits, Sapphos?

Not to the one where I was asked about my partner's blood group.

The irony that this thread now seems to be about how women are being treated during birth, especially lesbian women, is not lost on me.

Trans women are never going to have that problem.

Yes but the HCP who might be accused of transphobia for using words like 'father' could be if they identify as a mother. I suppose that's why we use 'partner' but as we've seen, that's posed and issue for some lesbian. Kind of proves the point really. But yes sorry to derail.

@BarbieandKenBruce

Yes but the HCP who might be accused of transphobia for using words like 'father' could be if they identify as a mother. I suppose that's why we use 'partner' but as we've seen, that's posed and issue for some lesbian. Kind of proves the point really. But yes sorry to derail.

You can't "identify" as a mother. You literally can't