Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

I’ve never really understood how the T had anything to do with LGB, if I’m honest I thought they were at cross purposes.

When I was growing up it was out of the ordinary for people to be openly homosexual, so it made sense for LGB to band together as one group to campaign for the things they had in common.

I do feel that T wouldn’t have the support that they do if they hadn’t attached themselves to the LGB groups, but because most of the population now support LGB aims (certainly much more than when I was growing up) that support has been transferred to something that people haven’t looked into and are taking on trust, well if Stonewall support the T then it must be ok.

I don’t think I am 100% woman, for example.
There is literally no sane response to this nonsense.

You are conflating sex (material reality) and gender stereotypes (perception). Which is at the crux of this whole sorry, shitty mess we’re in right now.

Billi, I note you describe yourself as a a gay single mother.

Is there a reason you don't use the word lesbian?

If you aren’t 100% adult human female, what are the other bits?

Even people with differences of sexual development (aka disorders of sexual development or intersex conditions) are still male or female (it just sometimes takes a bit more than a glance at a baby to tell which of the two).

@Shedbuilder

Billi, I note you describe yourself as a a gay single mother.

Is there a reason you don't use the word lesbian?

Yes, that too.

Can we quantify this '%' business?

Does it work on a points system or what?

It’s telling that the OP can’t even have this thread to herself without someone coming along and telling her to include men.

Yes. It’s endemic.

When I was a child, I identified as male. I called myself a boys name, weed standing up, preferred the company and games of boys. Nothing of any kind of traumatic nature led to this not did anyone encourage it. Nobody tried to stop me because it would have made me sad. It was permitted. I was very lucky. Until I was bullied at school by girls. My response was to wear pink and dresses, an early subscription to the patriarchal system.
Later in life I found peace by Identifying as somewhere in between. I’m a much kinder and stronger person for it.

What does identifying as something "in between" actually mean, in practical terms? Because on the face of it it's utter baloney.
There's nothing in between men and women. You don't get to cherry pick the parts you want.

Please don’t speak for all lesbians, I’m a lesbian, so is my fiancée, so are my some of my friends and we have no issue with the T being with LGB. Not every lesbian dislikes trans people, I’m not even sure the majority do tbh.

My response was to wear pink and dresses, an early subscription to the patriarchal system

You responded to bullying by wearing pink? How is wearing pink submission to the patriarchal system? It's a colour choice not capitulation to oppression.

Later in life I found peace by Identifying as somewhere in between

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Oh, give over with the "dislikes trans people" shite. Just stop it.

And those things are true of many people. Many heterosexual women wished to be boys and identified with them as kids as well.
I don’t know how you can be less of a woman unless maybe you lose a leg of something and there’s physically less of you.

Moving away from gender stereotypes would be helpful to all sorts of people. Young gay lads could dress as princesses and like dolls, women could enjoy tech and building things, men could wear make up and girls could love war games. It doesn’t change their bio sex.
The few people who cannot live as the sex they are could be supported, in fact all people could be supported. But you aren’t ever less of a woman because of your personality.

Oh yeah because statements like “Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic” really make it sound like OP loves trans people.

What I really dont see is how I am not a feminist when one of my primary objectives is in defeating the (not only male led) patriarchy.

So how as a feminist do you support females who are unable to use mixed sex spaces? It's a simple question. What do you think should happen to females who cannot use any space that a TW is in, and has no alternative provision?

Not every lesbian dislikes trans people, I’m not even sure the majority do tbh.

How does wanting to retain single-sex spaces, provisions, sports, etc = "dislike" of trans people?

Did you read my account of how if a TW wanted to join our walking netball group it would thereby exclude a number of the women members?

It's not "hate" to recognise that women need provisions that exclude males.

Transgenderism is inherently homophobic.

Look, we can't edit out the reality and groups that are really inconvenient to the mission of being unconditionally indulgent to a really special group of males, however lovely those males may be.

The whole 'mentioning these issues means you don't like them' equates being kind to lying while hurling inconvenient vulnerable groups out of sight under the bus. This seems to me neither kind, nor inclusive, nor even basically sane.

You've had a child. You're female, you're not something inbetween.

You sound angry with a system that forced you to conform to gender stereotypes. That was patriarchy. Patriarchy wants its women to look and behave like this, not like that. Patriarchy changes the rules from time to time. During WWI and WW2 it decided that women could wear dungarees and go to work in factories. Once the war was over it decided that those women should put on frocks and go back to the kitchen and nursery. Women have been

I'm a lesbian and I've never been any good at doing girly pink things. I'm called Shedbuilder because that's the kind of thing I'm good at. But instead of deciding that because I build sheds, which is the sort of thing normally done by men, I'm somewhere in-between male and female, I embrace being a woman who does work traditionally done by men. Instead of redefining myself to suit patriarchy, I challenge gender stereotypes.

I became a feminist when I was young. I saw how the system works to force women to conform to current gender stereotypes or be punished — because non-conformity is punished in a thousand little ways.

It's because you're focussing on gender stereotypes and not on sex that you aren't actually a feminist. If you see the world in terms of gender, you're still being ruled by a patriarchy that says that if a man says he's a woman then he is and you have to let him into your netball team or book group because that's the kind feminine thing to do.

I could go on to speculate about why you're unwilling to embrace the term lesbian and sticking with the patriarchally-approved 'gay woman' descriptor but I've got a load of compost to spread on my veg beds and the sun is shining. But Billi, try saying 'I am a lesbian' aloud. See if it doesn't feel liberating. Feel the woman-power.

And saying someone’s very existence is homophobic is showing that you like them? You can’t hide your dislike of trans people when making statements like this, if you think someone just being trans is homophobic, as a lesbian, how can you then say you don’t dislike trans people? That makes no sense what so ever.

I’m not here to participate in another endless mumsnet debate on trans rights, because it’s bloody pointless tbh, I’ve seen all the arguments, as I’ve said in other threads I see points on both sides, but I have nothing inherently against trans people, I don’t think they should be kicked out of LGBT, I don’t them being trans is homophobic. My post was to say you can’t speak for all lesbians and assume we all have the same views and start threads telling straight people that to be true allies they need to drop the T out of LGBT, because that’s speaking for all of us and evidently we don’t all feel that way. Just as you wouldn’t appreciate me starting a thread assuming I speak for all women or all lesbians with my views.

one of my primary objectives is in defeating the (not only male led) patriarchy

I cracked my sides there. What a larf!

We'll club together and buy you a dictionary so you can look things up.
To help: Patriarchy is under P, just before you get to Penis.

The amount of attempted nonsensical derailing on here, just shows how important it is to be an ally to Lesbians.

And saying someone’s very existence is homophobic is showing that you like them?

Who has said that?

You did “Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic“.

No one has said that, that’s who (in case Elsie needs a hint).

Transgenderism is an ideology. It is not ‘mean’ toward individuals to discuss an ideology.

Not everything is about ‘liking’ or ‘not liking’ someone.

If you cannot have grown up discussions without arguing like a toddler this probably isn’t the place for you. Here we require a more robust argument than ‘but..but...you don’t like everyone in the whole world??’