Miss Mrs Ms Mr don't quite work any more

[JellySlice]

Many people like having a title for formal use. But they can be tricky to get right, and often don’t really represent us well.

How could we adapt them for the 21st century?

French style: Miss for a younger woman, Mrs for an older woman (age cut-off? Risk of offending the woman?)

What about similar for men? We
have Master and Mister, but I don’t think Master for a young man works in the 21st century.

So maybe we should just stick with Ms and Mr for everyone.

If people choose to denote their marital status, there should be an equivalent for men. I propose Mrs for both men and women, pronounced Missus and Misters.

Perhaps we also need a gender neutral title, like the earned titles Dr, Prof etc, for those who want the formality of one, without revealing their sex. Since all the standard titles begin with M, perhaps the neuter title should as well, or at least include it. (Tricky, though. Could sound like a word for mother, or an actual name.)

Good point! I remember the "is your husband in?" thing from the frigging 2000s!

Shouldn't the Mr who wants to indicate they are married just add an s and also be a Mrs though

I think titles should be abolished altogether.

I am married but I go by Ms as it’s the equivalent of Mr. I don’t think it’s on that women’s titles (Miss/Mrs) give away their marital status.

My friend was married to a French guy called Jean and all their council tax mail etc from the council came addressed to Mrs and Mrs

I tell you the one that annoys me the most. I have a business bank account with santander which I have had for nearing 10 years. Last year I wanted to give my DP, who is a company employee, access to a card on the account so had to add him onto the account. Since then all correspondence, which for 8 years had been coming to Ms me now comes to Mr his full name and my initial my surname. With apparently no way for me to appear first or with my full name anymore. Really made me think less of them.

I agree and I personally never use them. I only ever use people's first names or their full names if sightly more formal.

Since then all correspondence, which for 8 years had been coming to Ms me now comes to Mr his full name and my initial my surname. With apparently no way for me to appear first or with my full name anymore. Really made me think less of them

See also insurance companies. Added dh to my insurance policy when he moved in- now all correspondence addressed to him. Same with car insurance. Thing is, they send it to my email with his name on!

Holiday companies also. I book and pay for the holiday. All good. Then I fill in passenger details and suddenly all is addressed to dh.

I also remember when I bought my house the solicitor, who had only dealt with me, knew I was buying in my sole name, no other parties, issued a refund cheque in “mr a myname”. Bank wouldn’t accept it, so I phoned to get the cheque reissued. Their reply? Can’t you pay it into your husbands account?. I was 22, and didn’t have a boyfriend never mind a husband.

I wish we could get rid of titles (especially Miss/Mrs) but I don't see it happening. I'm a millennial and have watched all my friends delightedly become Mrs HisName over the past few years.

I wonder what they'll think when the (statistically inevitable) divorces happen and they have to go through the horrible process of changing everything back (or keeping an arsehole's surname).

Not that I'm a cynic or anything...

I had a colleague who got around all of this by addressing everyone as "Comrade(s)".

My 7yr old ds calls me bruh which I quite like.

Comrade is quite funny. It's a bit weird but I'd happily have all other women call me sister.

I don't mind anyone addressing me as Summer, but I understand there are still people who find that disrespectful. I wonder if it'll be seen as increasingly respectful over coming decades.

After divorce, nothing has to bechanged. You can keep Mrs xh's name if you want. I've more or less gone to Ms xh's name. I very much regret taking his surname now, but I didn't know back then what I know understand about feminism (I wish I hadn't changed it regardless of the fact that I was going to be divorced).

I don't mind anyone addressing me as Summer I mean as "Lighten"

Dr Raccordement is what I prefer. :)

The use of Mlle in France is now illegal and there are just Mme and M as titles.

In German, too, it's been customary for a very long time not to use 'Fräulein' ( = Miss). Instead, Frau is used as the female counterpart to Herr in virtually every context. Strangely, I don't think this is made clear in any German-teaching materials for learners.

It's also much more common for people to use 'Frau' or 'Herr' in regular conversation with each other rather than going for first names.

However the gender-bending stuff has also infected German bureaucracy, so if you have to select your 'gender', say in an employment document or online form, you're often given the choice of 'male', 'female' or 'diverse'!?!

I assume there therefore might be a German equivalent of Mx but I've never seen this.

@twoHopes

I wish we could get rid of titles (especially Miss/Mrs) but I don't see it happening. I'm a millennial and have watched all my friends delightedly become Mrs HisName over the past few years.

I wonder what they'll think when the (statistically inevitable) divorces happen and they have to go through the horrible process of changing everything back (or keeping an arsehole's surname).

Not that I'm a cynic or anything...

I posted earlier on in the thread and said I wasn't especially fussed about changing my name or not when I got married, but actually I did change it to my husbands name.

Not because I defer to him, but because my given name was a pain in the Butt.

Tried double barrelling it - but it sounded stupid.
Jokingly asked DH to change his name to mine, at the time he was an inspector ... Inspector Butt... so although very very funny initially, it would have been daft.
We did think about choosing a new name together, but we didn't get round to it.

As I walked into the registry office I decided that I would use his name.

What I do find interesting is that 99% of my married friends are Mrs Partnersname, and even those who were divorced previously, now use Mrs Newpartnersname.

Holiday companies also. I book and pay for the holiday. All good. Then I fill in passenger details and suddenly all is addressed to dh.

God how annoying, especially when you do all the work.

Luckiliy I am unmarried and have always kept my original surname so I book everything, put myself as lead passenger and put DP and the kids next with their surname then everything seems to come to Ms Me ok. I do get loads of car stuff addressed to Mr DP at my email address though, you're right.

I too fin it astounding the people who keep calling themselves Mrs or even Ms arsehole ex, especially if he has cheated etc.

PP about the millenials - it was ever thus I am afraid .... I remember all the weddings I went to in the 90/00s with the bride wearing a t shirt proclaiming herself to be Mrs ExH and all the (fledgling) SM update "proud to be Mrs blah blah too. Can't think of one of those who is still happily married sadly.

What I do find interesting is that 99% of my married friends are Mrs Partnersname, and even those who were divorced previously, now use Mrs Newpartnersname

I always find it absolutely fascinating that the reason nearly always given for the woman taking her husbands name is “his was nicer/easier to spell”.

It sends me off into some weird thought loop trying to figure out the chances of women always meeting men with nicer names. If these women have brothers are they meeting women with really terrible or complicated names? Is there a rank of women by how terrible their name is and they can only marry someone above them on the scale?

I’m aware there are some people who genuinely dislike their name for whatever reason- in which case why wait til marriage? Why not deed poll as soon as you can?

Bottom line imo is society still confers a certain status on married women. Respectability, “betterness”- the perception of being attractive enough for a man to want to marry you, and the conference of that mans status on to you. So many times on here even we get posts “my husband says...” or my husband is x profession and he says....some even posting after an actual woman with that profession has posted..

Men don’t need marital status. Women won’t give it up while it reflects better on them to be married than all the negative connotation of being sad and single.

I do get loads of car stuff addressed to Mr DP at my email address though, you're right

And the flipside, everything school or activity related always comes to me.

I haven’t changed my name, and i find it interesting now a lot of kids activities are via social media, that dh finds himself in “mum” groups as they need a parent, but can’t find me. Even though I fill out all the parental consent forms with my name...

@bluebluezoo you're right in that it does still confer a status for women. When you're young it can make you sound more grown up and professional and like you've got your life sorted.

Now I'm older most people seem to think I'm this sad woman who is desperately waiting for her partner to propose. I know this because whenever my partner is asked why we're not married he says "because we don't want to get married". And they always say "hmm...are you sure your girlfriend agrees?".

I sometimes use Ms but don't really like it either. I'd rather we had a system like men do, where you have 1 title under 18, and a different title upon adulthood. Not 1 for being single and another for being married

LOL. There is a system but you don’t like it!

I have been Ms since it was invented. Absolutely refuse to use a title if marital status especially where non exists for men.

I think we should all be ‘Citizen’. Including Dr, Prof, Princess, Rev, Lady, Dane, Sir etc. Put letters after your name to denote qualifications, in a professional context.

Citizen , abbreviated to Cz.

I have to be honest after 20+ years as an unmarried partner and 4 kids together I have never felt any lack of status or issue about us not been married. It certainly hasnt hurt me at all professionaly, quite opposite in fact. I work in a very male dominated area and I think Ms Me is much more likely to get an interview than Mrs somebody, which starts to feel a bit fuddy duddy and past it I think when you get to late forties.

I do get some people who see me as a raging feminist, mainly SAHM at the school, but tbh, I dont have a problem with that.

It's not the same Comeby. When a man has the title "Mr" it means absolutely nothing other than that he is over 18. When a woman has the title "Ms" it means that she has specifically chosen it over the title "Miss" or "Mrs". Like it or not people will make assumptions about a woman using the title "Ms". I've heard people say that they'd assume a Ms was divorced, or single but bitter about it, or that she must be a feminist etc. As long as "Ms" appears along side the other options of "Mrs" and "Ms" It's not just a title, it's a political statement, and one that I don't want to make. That's why I don't like it. I just want to be able to use a title that says nothing else about me besides the fact that I'm an adult. Like men can.

I'm 53. 'Miss' works fine for me: I'm proud of my single status. I really don't like 'Ms' at all.

Maybe I should legally change my name to Awesome-Goddess of the Endless then when randos ring me up and use my first name they’d have to call me Awesome-Goddess.