Miss Mrs Ms Mr don't quite work any more

[JellySlice]

Many people like having a title for formal use. But they can be tricky to get right, and often don’t really represent us well.

How could we adapt them for the 21st century?

French style: Miss for a younger woman, Mrs for an older woman (age cut-off? Risk of offending the woman?)

What about similar for men? We
have Master and Mister, but I don’t think Master for a young man works in the 21st century.

So maybe we should just stick with Ms and Mr for everyone.

If people choose to denote their marital status, there should be an equivalent for men. I propose Mrs for both men and women, pronounced Missus and Misters.

Perhaps we also need a gender neutral title, like the earned titles Dr, Prof etc, for those who want the formality of one, without revealing their sex. Since all the standard titles begin with M, perhaps the neuter title should as well, or at least include it. (Tricky, though. Could sound like a word for mother, or an actual name.)

I don't live in the UK anymore but my UK docs have various titles on them - Miss, Mrs, Ms and Dr and nobody has ever questioned it so I think only your name actually "counts".

How would EasyJet deal with doctors, then?

I'm with @LinemanForTheCounty and reckon Quaker is the way to go - I address/sign off with "Jane Brown". Don't see the point in a " title". If forced I'll choose Ms though.

Yes, I like it that in France (where I live) I'm usually Madame now despite the fact I'm not married.
Having a title is sometimes useful when you want to be icily polite, especially when its to someone who has been a bit rude/overfamiliar to you. That might just be French though.

I like the icily politeness of them as well, especially when someone smarmy git says `can I call you crock' and I say no.

Growing up somewhere backwards Ms is too loaded, it would make the reader think lesbian or unmarried. Being both I had no wish to announce this. I would like a generic title such as Mr for women.

How would EasyJet deal with doctors, then?

They don’t. Options are Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms.

I don't use a title unless absolutely necessary, in which case i use Ms which i have used since i was about 12. Ms Mr and Dr covers just about everyone i think.

I'm not married but live with my partner and our children and I always get called Mrs HisSurname. Drives me potty. But calling myself Miss feels juvenile. I sometimes use Ms but don't really like it either. I'd rather we had a system like men do, where you have 1 title under 18, and a different title upon adulthood. Not 1 for being single and another for being married. It's absurd that marital status comes into it. Alternatively we could change the men's system to be like ours and make them all be called Master until they get married, upon which they may become a Mr. Bet they wouldn't like that.

I might start using Mx actually. Then that sends a clear message from the start that I'm very very special and different, extremely highly strung, hair trigger litigious, and over active on Twitter. Then no one will try and fuck with me incase I sue or "cancel" them.

I think sometimes formality is preferable. It sets relationship boundaries and stops miscommunications through over familiarity. I like being Mrs and don’t want anyone telling me what I should prefer to be called.
It is surely preferable to ask people how they wish to be addressed. In situations like a doctors I’d expect Mrs Pavlova if they were Dr Smith. If the assume it’s OK to call me Cherry I’ll call them Sally. If I don’t know their first name, I’ll ask and make the point.

In many ways it would be easier to use Mr for everyone and anyone. I wouldn't mind. I prefer an honorific and all the traditionally female ones are over-shadowed by marital status.

@CherryPavlova totally agree about not being told what you should prefer. To be clear: if someone signed off Mrs/Ms/Miss then that's how I'd address them in future.

I like being Mrs

Why?

@bluebluezoo

I like being Mrs

Why?

Because it is an integer part of my adult identity. Because it’s my choice just as much as those who prefer Ms. It’s about respect for others and being comfortable with differences.

Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I get angry if complete strangers address me by my first name. It’s presumptuous and bad mannered.
First name terms are for intimate associates such as family and close friends only.
I’m a retired doctor, and I always addressed patients as Mr or Ms Surname, unless they invited me to use their Christian name. Similarly, I always introduce myself as Dr Surname.
I know younger people tend to be casual and informal, but you should bear in mind that you may piss off your older customers, clients or patients by presuming an inappropriate level of familiarity.

Remember being in secondary school office in the 80s. Had a list of every teacher. All females had Ms before their names (progressive school). I asked an adult what it stood for and they said 'Maybe single.' I've been Ms ever since. Love it!

Ms is just fine for me.

I’m married, and still a Ms.

Ms and Mr. Women’s marital status has naff all bearing on how they should be addressed.

YY. And I'm normally not one for sweating the small stuff, but the Sir/Miss thing in schools is one that does irk me. If this is supposed to be a respectful form of address, it's interesting that 'Sir' is very deferential whereas its equivalent Ma'am (common in the US) is downgraded to mere 'Miss'. Addressing all teachers by their given names seems to me much more respectful.

I'm sick of the rudeness I've experienced when I've rejected the title 'Mrs' when my status as 'married'. If it were left up to me, I'd not use a title on anything. They're obsolete and unnecessary. As most contexts insist on their inclusion, I now use 'Dr' by default. No objection to 'Ms' either, but 'Miss' or 'Mrs' set my teeth on edge.

It's all cobblers in any event. They're all abbreviations for the same word.

I think titles are still important. Especially now when every other fucker wants to pretend they’re my friend and we’re in a ‘community’ and be pally and informal and just throw out any sense of formality. No. I’m not your friend, I’ve not invited you to pat me on the back or high five me or whatever the case may be.
I expect professionals to maintain a professional formality.

"Some companies need to know your gender though."
Then they can ask.

Why should I disclose my marital status. In any case I didn't change my surname on marriage. (hardly radical or unusual) so neither Miss nor Mrs works really.

Companies might need to know your sex, in some very limited cases.

Sex, not gender. Please do not conflate the two, they do not mean the same thing.

Re telephone conversations, i also ask to speak to first name surname or check that I'm speaking to first name surname just so I know I've got exactly the right person and not miss smith who is actually a different miss smith eg a daughter etc. I can see that's different if you don't have a job that involves calling clients though. Because I call so many clients I've extended it to 3rd parties as well and actually I like the certainty of it.

Re Mrs, this is what my kids' primary school always called me, even though I faithfully filled in the pupil information forms as Ms, every year. I sort of put up with it until I got divorced and then thought this was really ludicrous now, as it implied my ex was still in the household so it felt inaccurate. So I tried to correct a staff member who apologised and asked for my "new" surname, and then got really confused when I said my surname had never changed, ever. Just one example of the nonsense that can get thrown up by titles.

So legally I went with "Ms" but only because I can't call myself "Empress of my own domain, woman of independent means, and belonging to no one".

Of course you can and anyone who refuses to use your chosen pronoun is committing literal violence.

Please start any replies with 'your imperial majesty' :-)

@Ninkanink agree that I hate that "can I call you Betty" crap. No you may not, you jumped up little oik. First name surname to verify identity and then continue the conversation as you need.

Titles are not important to me, I've always used Ms and if it wasn't automatically a bit twatty I would use Mx. I don't want to use or declare prefixes either.
However, I can see that some people are happy with and would want to use titles. You do need a way to formally address someone sometimes.