Miss Mrs Ms Mr don't quite work any more

[JellySlice]

Many people like having a title for formal use. But they can be tricky to get right, and often don’t really represent us well.

How could we adapt them for the 21st century?

French style: Miss for a younger woman, Mrs for an older woman (age cut-off? Risk of offending the woman?)

What about similar for men? We
have Master and Mister, but I don’t think Master for a young man works in the 21st century.

So maybe we should just stick with Ms and Mr for everyone.

If people choose to denote their marital status, there should be an equivalent for men. I propose Mrs for both men and women, pronounced Missus and Misters.

Perhaps we also need a gender neutral title, like the earned titles Dr, Prof etc, for those who want the formality of one, without revealing their sex. Since all the standard titles begin with M, perhaps the neuter title should as well, or at least include it. (Tricky, though. Could sound like a word for mother, or an actual name.)

Yes, the insistence on Mrs Hisname is also a constant assumption.

I expect the school to do it. The in-laws, not so much.

Even in 2020 it's too-often assumed that women who dare exercise their right to their own identities should be put back in their box.

I get “is that Delirium Jnr’s mum?” from my daughter’s school. And before that from her nursery. And before that every fucker I interacted with as a mother.

Not keen.

@MarielVanArkleStinks yy. Also Mrs Hisname was completely incorrect for me.
Incorrect title, incorrect name. The person they were referring to did not exist. Unless they were actually wanting to speak to my mother in law.

@Deliriumoftheendless

I get “is that Delirium Jnr’s mum?” from my daughter’s school. And before that from her nursery. And before that every fucker I interacted with as a mother.

Not keen.

Ha! Yes, I’d forgotten this, this is exactly who I am addressed as. Not Miss or Mrs or Ms anything, but “DC1’s mum”. This I mostly don’t mind (unless it’s a very protracted conversation or I feel I am relevant and should be addressed as my own self), but when people who are not my children address me just as “mum” it irritates me. Nursery/school/medical staff. And practically always on an occasion where they could just not call me anything at all. “Now, mum, if you could just hold his leg still there for me please” - you could drop the ‘mum’ from this instruction! The only other person in this room is 8 weeks old so I’m pretty clear it’s me you’re speaking to!

Miss makes me feel 10
Ms apparently makes me sound bitter I am not or am no longer married but I feel like a phenomenal woman when I use it
Mrs would make me really happy and I'd be proud to be one.

I hate Ms. It’s just a noise. Like an annoying bee.
At least we get a choice.

Of course they work. You just choose the one you prefer or go by just your first name and surname

it's interesting that 'Sir' is very deferential whereas its equivalent Ma'am (common in the US) is downgraded to mere 'Miss'.

I don't think it's a downgrade. I think the use of "Miss" for teachers stems from the time of the marriage bar when a female teacher had to give up their job on getting marriage so historically all female teachers would have been a "Miss".

*married

Why not just let everyone choose their own title? I'm quite happy being a Mrs. (I also took DH's surname, the shame ).

And before someone asks why: because it's my choice, if I let you have your preferred choice then don't question mine.

Re schools - several teachers are 'Ms' but the kids seem to kind of blur it into 'Miss' - there's barely any difference between how they say the two titles.

I worked in a school, asked the kids to call me Scrimp but they couldn't handle it. I was Miss Scrimp, like it or not.

I'm about to get divorced. I shall remain Mrs Surname. Ms is twatty.

I grew up in a Scandinavian country, where we rarely used titles at all. Very occasionally there would be a letter for my dad, addressed to (equivalent of) Mr. Dad’s name, and I remember thinking it must be from someone terribly important. Perhaps the queen or the prime minister😂

I choose “Mx” whenever it’s available because I don’t think it’s anyone’s business whether I am a man or a woman. I doesn’t make me a speshual snowflake.

The neutrality of Mx appeals to me, I just don't want to get into the current trends of mangling language. I think people struggle to get to grips with Ms and that's been around for a long time. I think Mx will be unclear to the majority of people.

Mrs would make me really happy and I'd be proud to be one

I always wonder why is Mrs is so special, and women are so proud to use it, why men don’t feel the same?

It always seems to be women demonstrating their feelings for their marriage, changing name, using Mrs. Do we conclude men aren’t equally proud of being married? Why wouldn’t they be proud to take their wife's name or adopt a new title purely to show they are married?

Ms was completely neutral when it was introduced.

It’s been misappropriated and misused ever since, which is what will happen to any other title that becomes widely used.

(In terms of meaning, that is. It’s not neutral in terms of sex, but that’s important and right and valid - sex isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.)

it's interesting that 'Sir' is very deferential whereas its equivalent Ma'am (common in the US) is downgraded to mere 'Miss'.

Don't the UK armed forces and the police use Ma'am as the feminine equivalent to 'Sir'? As these honourifics are used in an upward direction, it's quite clear that they didn't consider 'Miss' sufficiently deferential.

I don't think Ms was neutral when it was introduced. A woman saying "My marital status is none of your business" was fairly revolutionary!

I hate them and haven't ever seen the point in them. I write lots of formal letters in work and don't recall ever using them. Nobody has complained or raised issue with their 'title' being missing.

When my mum visited a solicitor to finalise part of her divorce, she commented as she signed something that she must be a Ms now and the young male member of staff laughed and said "oh I thought it was only lesbians who used Ms, I'd still use Mrs if I were you"...

Well yes. That bit was revolutionary for sure!

I'm good with Ms and Mr across the board. Then yes Mrs for anyone that is particularly into being married.

Any special/unique/nb/fluid etc people can be Mx if it suits, why not, underlines their specialness.

So Mr and Ms seems entirely functional and appropriate in 2020 to me where we strive for full equality between the sexes. Then Mrs and Mx for anyone that needs that validation.

@JellySlice idk about the armed forces but the police use Sir and Ma'am for Inspectors and above. Personally I use 'guv' for both (this is generally perfectly acceptable) as I worry about slipping up and calling the female DI 'mum' by mistake...

Then Mrs and Mx for anyone that needs that validation

Plus one for men that validates their relationship status. If we keep Mrs it’s only fair.

When I grew up with a single mum the title was used very much to discriminate. It was used to judge financial and social status- this would have been the late 80’s and I remember certain stores offering interest free credit as part of their selling spiel, and I remember the forms not only having marital status but a section for your husbands details, including job and income. No husband, no credit.

I also remember in my younger days salesmen would automatically dismiss me as a “miss”.

Anyone who says titles don’t matter should try replying to the “is it Miss or Mrs” question with “it’s Dr”. That alone makes every second of my PhD worthwhile (Well it isn’t the pay). The attitude switch is obvious.