Reply from the Body Shop re JKR... just so dreadful...

[onlywomennotmen]

Apparently men menstruate too...

^Hello, and thank you for getting in touch with us about our recent tweet to JK Rowling. We wanted to respond to everyone who has reached out to us to clarify our position on this issue.

We are longstanding supporters of the rights of women and girls on issues which affect them and believe it is important to keep having conversations around difficult topics such as this. Every person has the right to live their life free from the fear of violence, especially gender-based violence. The Body Shop has been an active campaigner on this issue since 1994.

The Body Shop’s position on menstruation in relation to trans and non-binary people is that we stand with ALL menstruators. People have periods – women, men and non-binary people. And plenty of women don’t. We value learning from everyone’s experience and we believe the conversation needs to go forwards, not backwards.

We disagree with JK Rowling’s view and wanted to demonstrate our support for trans and non-binary people. We understand why addressing the tweet to JK Rowling’s personal account has been interpreted as an attack on her as an individual, and as a domestic abuse survivor. That was absolutely not our intention. We didn’t get the tone right on this one and we do want to engage respectfully and constructively on these important issues.

We believe it is important to keep having conversations around difficult topics such as this, and doing so constructively. We recognise that our engagement with JK Rowling on this occasion wasn’t as constructive as we would like to be. We all need to educate ourselves, be inclusive and stand together so that we can end the shame and stigma around periods for all menstruators and stand up for what is right in our society.

We stand by our position on the rights of trans and non-binary people, and we will learn from this execution to ensure our communication is stronger and more constructive in the future.

We hope this helps you understand our position. We appreciated hearing yours.^

Definitely agree with that Shelley.

I also feel pretty angry about the “Bodyshop at home” crap. I haven’t bought anything from them for a long time now because of that.

Bodyshop at home?? Are they doing an Avon type of sales push?

That's the kiss of death, then. Good riddance.

Betty98, my main issue (and I do have others) with saying "people menstruate" and that it's not specific to women is the fact that women are often oppressed as a result of their biology (including the fact they are 'menstruators'). This is recognised in law and is why there are sex-based protections for women written into law. This didn't just happen - women had to fight bloody hard to get these rights.

But when you start to say that biological sex doesn't matter and anyone can menstruate and anyone can be a woman, those protections in law become meaningless.

It wouldn't be so problematic if people acknowledged that sex and gender are two distinct things, but nowadays many people believe (or at least say they believe) that biological sex is a social construct. That people can actually change biological sex. And saying that men have periods - not biological females who identify as men, but actual people who are men - have periods, makes sex protections based in law very difficult to enforce.

If sex doesn't exist, women's sex-based protections don't exist. The law doesn't even need to be changed for that to happen since if the word 'sex' doesn't mean anything, sex discrimination law is simply inapplicable.

Women can't claim sex discrimination if sex isn't a recognised thing - if men can menstruate and women can have penises and male privilege, there is no legally-recognised oppressed class of "biological woman" any more. Of course, biological women will still be oppressed in the ways they always have been - we just won't be able to name it any more or do anything about it.

Women would only be able to gain protection based on the fact the discrimination related to a specific biological function, such as their menstruation (as a 'menstruator') or their pregnancy (as a 'pregnant person'). But what will be lost is the recognition that biological women experience a complex force of structural oppression as a result of the combined factors which arise from their biological sex and their treatment in society.

I want trans people to feel supported and included in periods and whatever else they experience in life. But it's dangerous for women to pretend that biological sex doesn't exist.

Yes three “friends” have invited me to join their “teams” because I’m on mat leave and that’s all it takes to realise your lifelong MLM dreams.

‘ People have periods – women, men and non-binary people’.

Oh dear, if it were not so awful, it’d be wonderfully delusionally 😂.

Hang on - why have they only said that plenty of women don't have periods?

By saying men, women and non-binary people have periods and then singling out women as a class which includes plenty of people who don't have periods, they seem to be saying that all men and non-binary people have periods.

Unless there is something specific about women that would prompt them to clarify this in respect of women only? Perhaps there's some biological factor or something? But there can't be, because "people have periods" - it's absolutely not specific to women, and they've made that very clear.

So it must mean that all men and non-binary people actually do have periods. There's no other logical explanation, based on what they've said.

Good point, Longine!

Thanks LonginesPrime, I can get behind what you’ve said. And you definitely answered my initial question and have given me a lot of further insight into the whole trans debate (for example, I genuinely thought it was pretty well established that gender and sex were two distinct things).

They have a special men's range because :

Whilst most of our products are suitable for everyone, we've pulled together our top recommendations for Men's Bodycare. Whether you're after moisturisation or exfoliation there's something here for you

So men have their own stuff, but the rest is for everyone.

@Betty98

Thanks LonginesPrime, I can get behind what you’ve said. And you definitely answered my initial question and have given me a lot of further insight into the whole trans debate (for example, I genuinely thought it was pretty well established that gender and sex were two distinct things).

If only!

‘ Damnit, I literally bought Body Shop stuff this week for the first time in ages.’

Take it back for a refund.

I've stopped buying from them. Have often recommended their skin defence facial sunscreen but have swapped to Biore Watery Essence. Can I urge others to do the same, buy elsewhere.

All the confusion, the mental gymnastics, the convoluted pretzel-like ‘logic’ is designed to obfuscate, to muddy the waters, to be used to the advantage of a very determined faction that demands full and complete access to women’s sex-segregated spaces, for any man that wants it. There is no middle ground for that cohort of individuals.

We deal in absolutes: Biological fact. Material reality.

Men are men, with male bodies, and will always be biologically male.

Women are women, with female bodies, and will always be biologically female.

(With the utmost compassion for those individuals who genuinely suffer with gender dysphoria, who are perfectly entitled to their own safe spaces, and each have a right to live peacefully without fear of harm. BUT not at the expense of women’s and girls’ protections in law.)

People have periods – women, men and non-binary people.

What the fuck is this shit? It makes me so angry 😡

Bye Bye Body Shop

The first time I went to visit my son, in England, I forgot my makeup, so I went into the body shop with my daughter, because I was going out for a special occasion. A lovely young woman gave me a total makeover, with eyeshadows, moisturiser, etc. I got her to put the eye shadows in the nice mirror cases that you do and asked her to collect up a new packet of every single item that she used on me and I bought the lot. I also bought stuff for my daughter. I used to carry the list on my phone, so I could top it up, every time I needed it and was near one of your stores. I was so pleased to have all that lovely, cruelty free makeup.

Well now, you can go fuck yourselves. I had a hysterectomy because of endometriosis and my daughter, at the age of 25 is going the same way. You can fuck off with your callous disregard of females and your twisting of the English language, in order to appease a group of people who probably don’t set foot in your shop. Did you actually think it through, before you posted that crap? Female bodied people who identify as trans are not your demographic, as they’re unlikely to wear makeup! Do you reckon the sums will add up, when you gain all those woke struggling students, young people on the first rung of the wage ladder and the XY people you gain.

Well done for chasing off the women who stayed loyal after Anita Roddick sold it. I’m so looking forward to you disappearing completely from the high street.

And just saying on their products don’t know what they have done to their hemp lotion. Used to be great.

Now it’s total crap. Doesn’t work

Any other of their products which used to be good which are now crap

?

Am including menstruators in this discussion. Just in case 😉😉😉😉

Fuck them, don't shop there. There are plenty of alternatives.

@rooarsome

We all need to educate ourselves, be inclusive and stand together so that we can end the shame and stigma around periods for all menstruators and stand up for what is right in our society. So what I've taken from that comment is that they think that those who complain need educating, whereas they are totally in the right.

That's pretty much how I read it, too, having received the identical email earlier.

Mulling my reply over now. Woke dickheads.

Go in and leave your sanitary wear on their floor.

Then the would pay attention to who the fuck mentruates

Bunch of cunts. Stupid fucking virtue signalling. Ugh.

I think that this is very likely the Body Shop's David Boynton

"social democrat, supporter of conscious capitalism... business can and should be a force for good in the world."

twitter.com/davidpboynton?lang=en

The word "conscious" in relation to anything corporate is very bad news in my experience. The "conscious capitalism" "tribe" is one I am familiar with. Lots of people who are earning $$$$$, often linked to MLMs and dubious charities while virtue signalling there's no tomorrow. They often call themselves "humanitarians" and "global citizens".

Anita Roddick was very into it while also being very into some really dodgy guru types. She was at one point a follower of the controversial businessman and alleged cult leader Andrew Cohen.

You know I am getting pretty fucking sick of this. I have nothing but support for people who have a gf set identity crisis and need to change. It's a real biological thing.
But fuck the fuck off with your 'we are women cause we say we are'.
Are we just never safe? Anywhere?

I'm sure they're not saying that actual men menstruate. Just that people who menstruate who don't identify as women have their support

The point is that women are being de-centred from the very female process & experience of menstruation.

I offended (I think) a friend cause she thought jk Rowling deserved it. I didn't. But she doesn't think trans women shouldn't be able to compete in female sports because they have the biological advantage. Make it stop!!!