Reply from the Body Shop re JKR... just so dreadful...

[onlywomennotmen]

Apparently men menstruate too...

^Hello, and thank you for getting in touch with us about our recent tweet to JK Rowling. We wanted to respond to everyone who has reached out to us to clarify our position on this issue.

We are longstanding supporters of the rights of women and girls on issues which affect them and believe it is important to keep having conversations around difficult topics such as this. Every person has the right to live their life free from the fear of violence, especially gender-based violence. The Body Shop has been an active campaigner on this issue since 1994.

The Body Shop’s position on menstruation in relation to trans and non-binary people is that we stand with ALL menstruators. People have periods – women, men and non-binary people. And plenty of women don’t. We value learning from everyone’s experience and we believe the conversation needs to go forwards, not backwards.

We disagree with JK Rowling’s view and wanted to demonstrate our support for trans and non-binary people. We understand why addressing the tweet to JK Rowling’s personal account has been interpreted as an attack on her as an individual, and as a domestic abuse survivor. That was absolutely not our intention. We didn’t get the tone right on this one and we do want to engage respectfully and constructively on these important issues.

We believe it is important to keep having conversations around difficult topics such as this, and doing so constructively. We recognise that our engagement with JK Rowling on this occasion wasn’t as constructive as we would like to be. We all need to educate ourselves, be inclusive and stand together so that we can end the shame and stigma around periods for all menstruators and stand up for what is right in our society.

We stand by our position on the rights of trans and non-binary people, and we will learn from this execution to ensure our communication is stronger and more constructive in the future.

We hope this helps you understand our position. We appreciated hearing yours.^

I no longer menstruate. What does that make me?

Oh, can people stop muddying the waters like this? . You're a woman. You know this.

But what is a woman? How do I know I'm a woman?

Do you think when people say "look here", it's exclusionary and offensive to blind people?

Is there a particularly woke company which may have plenty of public toilets? Restaurant chain etc. I fancy tweeting them and making sure they’ve used lockdown to full advantage to install tampon machines in all their gents.

Betty you don't see why we need a word to name the class of people with the types of bodies which can gestate?

Wow.

And you don't see why that suggestion appalls women?

TorkTorkBam

Betty why would they use confusing language that many would not understand: "menstruators".
No idea, the word generally is pretty vile (as in, it just sounds so unnecessary). I’d definitely sign a petition asking for no one to ever use that word ever again.

Perhaps this is why I’m not getting it. I don’t have an issue with “people that menstruate”. But I’m gathering majority here would prefer it to stay with “women that menstruate”. Yes?

@ErnDincum

I no longer menstruate. What does that make me?

Oh, can people stop muddying the waters like this? . You're a woman. You know this.

But what is a woman? How do I know I'm a woman?

Are you taking the piss?

But what is a woman? How do I know I'm a woman?

Presumably because you have female biology? whether it's working or not and regardless of your age.

How do you know you're a women?

I no longer menstruate. What does that make me?

A woman who no longer menstruates. This isn't hard, unless you are very obtuse indeed.

FFS. And yet again, we need to "educate ourselves". How did I know that was going to crop up in their response?

@ErnDincum

I no longer menstruate. What does that make me?

Oh, can people stop muddying the waters like this? . You're a woman. You know this.

But what is a woman? How do I know I'm a woman?

Try to become a Catholic priest. They'll explain which kind you are if you are confused.

Betty you don't see why we need a word to name the class of people with the types of bodies which can gestate? No, I don’t. I’m not being obtuse for the sake of it. Why do we need a word for the subset of women who menstruate? And if we need one, why haven’t we had one until The Bodyshop have randomly decided to create one?

@Betty98

TorkTorkBam

Betty why would they use confusing language that many would not understand: "menstruators".
No idea, the word generally is pretty vile (as in, it just sounds so unnecessary). I’d definitely sign a petition asking for no one to ever use that word ever again.

Perhaps this is why I’m not getting it. I don’t have an issue with “people that menstruate”. But I’m gathering majority here would prefer it to stay with “women that menstruate”. Yes?

No, just "women".

No need for the extra words.

You’ve missed the point entirely.

The point is that only women menstruate. Only women have periods.

No man will have a period, ever. Every individual in the world who menstruates is a woman.

@LonginesPrime

People have periods – women, men and non-binary people. And plenty of women don’t. We value learning from everyone’s experience

Hang on - why have they only said that plenty of women don't have periods?

By saying men, women and non-binary people have periods and then singling out women as a class which includes plenty of people who don't have periods, they seem to be saying that all men and non-binary people have periods.

Unless there is something specific about women that would prompt them to clarify this in respect of women only? Perhaps there's some biological factor or something? But there can't be, because "people have periods" - it's absolutely not specific to women, and they've made that very clear.

So it must mean that all men and non-binary people actually do have periods. There's no other logical explanation, based on what they've said.

And if this was an oversight and they merely forgot to include a sentence stating that plenty of men and non-binary people don't have periods either, it seems they've been rather trans-exclusionary, doesn't it?

I agree. They should be told that their email is transphobic. Bigoted bastards!

No one here thinks there should be a word for the subset of women who menstruate.

Perhaps this is why I’m not getting it. I don’t have an issue with “people that menstruate”. But I’m gathering majority here would prefer it to stay with “women that menstruate”. Yes?

Oh come on. Just women is fine. No women in history ever objected to the sue of the term women when talking about periods. Because we all know:

Only women menstruate. Not all women menstruate.

This is rally very basic logic to grasp.

This is not an attempt to avoid offending menopausal women, lets' not pretend it is, it's an attempt to not offend men who like us to pretend they women.

@Betty98

Betty you don't see why we need a word to name the class of people with the types of bodies which can gestate? No, I don’t. I’m not being obtuse for the sake of it. Why do we need a word for the subset of women who menstruate? And if we need one, why haven’t we had one until The Bodyshop have randomly decided to create one?

We don't . "Women" does the job perfectly well.

I’m not being obtuse for the sake of it. Why do we need a word for the subset of women who menstruate?

We don't!!

@Betty98

Betty you don't see why we need a word to name the class of people with the types of bodies which can gestate? No, I don’t. I’m not being obtuse for the sake of it. Why do we need a word for the subset of women who menstruate? And if we need one, why haven’t we had one until The Bodyshop have randomly decided to create one?

We always used "women".

Women who don't have periods were fine with it. I didn't get periods when pregnant and early breastfeeding. I wasn't confused or offended by tampon adverts during this time.

Ok thanks Ninkanink and TorkTorkBam, that has helped.

I think I need to decide where I am on terminology debate then.

**
Betty you don't see why we need a word to name the class of people with the types of bodies which can gestate?
The word she means is 'women'. Not the subset who currently menstruate.

Why do we need a word for the subset of women who menstruate?

We don't. If the context of a discussion is periods, tampons etc then just referring to 'women and girls' is fine. And if you want to add transmen, go ahead.

My mum will literally take offence at anything, the slightest wrong look from a neighbour or coworker, someone sending her birthday card by second class post (the horror!), or someone she hasn’t seen in 20 years not remembering how she likes her coffee and she’s hoiking her bra and tutting and saying well I never liked them anyway, and even she doesn’t take offence at the word women to describe the subset of women who have periods, even though she hasn’t had one for over a decade.

Why do we need a word for the subset of women who menstruate? when I asked this I thought it was because PP were saying we did (of note: Betty you don't see why we need a word to name the class of people with the types of bodies which can gestate?). I was answering this question directly by saying I didn’t see why we needed a word for it. I definitely don’t think we need a word for it!

Aside from anything, even if they fundamentally disagree with JKR, the tweet was misjudged. It was dismissive, shallow, and completely out of context. For that alone their social media team should be ashamed.

As for the rest... I'd say that I'll never buy from them again. But I haven't for probably 20 years. I will instead celebrate when they go under, which I estimate will be in 2021.