Reply from the Body Shop re JKR... just so dreadful...

[onlywomennotmen]

Apparently men menstruate too...

^Hello, and thank you for getting in touch with us about our recent tweet to JK Rowling. We wanted to respond to everyone who has reached out to us to clarify our position on this issue.

We are longstanding supporters of the rights of women and girls on issues which affect them and believe it is important to keep having conversations around difficult topics such as this. Every person has the right to live their life free from the fear of violence, especially gender-based violence. The Body Shop has been an active campaigner on this issue since 1994.

The Body Shop’s position on menstruation in relation to trans and non-binary people is that we stand with ALL menstruators. People have periods – women, men and non-binary people. And plenty of women don’t. We value learning from everyone’s experience and we believe the conversation needs to go forwards, not backwards.

We disagree with JK Rowling’s view and wanted to demonstrate our support for trans and non-binary people. We understand why addressing the tweet to JK Rowling’s personal account has been interpreted as an attack on her as an individual, and as a domestic abuse survivor. That was absolutely not our intention. We didn’t get the tone right on this one and we do want to engage respectfully and constructively on these important issues.

We believe it is important to keep having conversations around difficult topics such as this, and doing so constructively. We recognise that our engagement with JK Rowling on this occasion wasn’t as constructive as we would like to be. We all need to educate ourselves, be inclusive and stand together so that we can end the shame and stigma around periods for all menstruators and stand up for what is right in our society.

We stand by our position on the rights of trans and non-binary people, and we will learn from this execution to ensure our communication is stronger and more constructive in the future.

We hope this helps you understand our position. We appreciated hearing yours.^

They are saying that. They’re saying transmen menstruate. Their belief is transmen are men and transwomen are women. So they are indeed saying men menstruate.

But they're clearly not saying people with penises menstruate which is what everyone else posting is getting incensed and snarky about

Ah OP I too am in academia and it does feel like I'm the only person who doesn't buy the wordy but meaningless critical theory essays. I personally am not willing to risk my career by expressing my views just yet, but have endless admiration for those who do. I used to say it's a good job that I'm a woman so that I can challenge the feminist stance since men aren't allowed to. In the last few years women aren't allowed to either. Hopefully there's more of us who think like this, and even more hopefully we will one day see the end of silencing through threat of sacking.

@CloudyVanilla
They literally are saying that men have periods:
People have periods – women, men and non-binary people.

I don’t understand why we can’t continue to use the words man/male and woman/female as scientific terms. They don’t have to have any impact on how we look, dress or behave, or what we call ourselves. I don’t know why trans men and non binary people would be offended by the phrase “Women have periods” - they know if it applies to them. They haven’t forgotten that they have female bodies, regardless of what they might have had done to them. They can’t pretend or demand that other people pretend that they have always been men otherwise why did they think they needed to transition?!

As for women who don’t get periods... Yes of course they’re still women! That’s like blind people getting offended by the phrase “Humans can see” or amputees getting offended by the phrase “Humans have two arms or two legs”. Unless you are one of those people who needs to be offended by everything, you know that it means IN GENERAL.

Clearly these people don’t have any actual problems if this is the kind of thing they’re getting upset about. The human race is fucking doomed.

That is what my mum would call an apology for an apology. I will never buy from them again.

@CloudyVanilla

They're not saying men menstruate.

People have periods – women, men and non-binary people.

Um - as an English teacher, I know that reading comprehension can be very challenging, but this seems a fairly clear statement on the Body Shop's part?

How are you reading that sentence, CloudyVanilla, if not as saying that men menstruate?

Have I just been referred to as a menstruator???

But the full quote is "The Body Shop’s position on menstruation in relation to trans and non-binary people is that we stand with ALL menstruators."

• In relation to trans and non-binary people.

Or just get mad I guess.

Gah. So ridiculous. Never buying from the again.

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@CloudyVanilla

But they're clearly not saying people with penises menstruate which is what everyone else posting is getting incensed and snarky about

They clearly are. They state that men have periods. The definition of 'man' is 'adult human male'. The definition of 'male' is 'of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.'

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So, by logical extension, men (those well-known menstruators) also have babies? Well, thank you Body Shop (BS for short). Thank you for teaching us what centuries of Science, academia, and learning has obviously failed to understand....
HONESTLY, what achingly woke, half-brained cretins write these emails and form these policies?

You need female biology to menstruate. What you like to call yourself in your battle against biology is irrelevant, really.
Some people mightn't see an issue with women being reduced to menstruators to bring all those who refuse to admit to having a sex at all but still need sanitary protection into the fold, but I'm not one of them.

Thanks for the science lesson re what a man is.

I'm just pointing out they are using backwards language and it's silly but they obviously not saying bio men are "menstruators"

I'm not saying I agree with the terminology they're using. I think it's absolutely friggin gross and bass to refer to anybody as a menstruator. Perhaps it would be clearer if I talk about ejaculators when referring to men.

Everyone who has a body of the type that menstruates is a woman. Only women menstruate.

There's a kindness around accepting that not all of those women wish to call themselves women, but equally there's major rudeness and dehumanisation to women in declaring that we now have to refer to women by body functions in some insane attempt to protect a tiny proportion of the population from possibly offensive reality. I am not a 'menstruator' or a 'lactator', stop reducing me to body parts.

We could have women and others who menstruate. Except there will then be fits from males complaining that this suggests that they might not be equal women because they don't menstruate.

Men menstruate? That's just your piles, pet.

I think it's absolutely friggin gross and bass to refer to anybody as a menstruator. Perhaps it would be clearer if I talk about ejaculators when referring to men.
Or maybe just stop the fecking nonsense and stick with men and women. It usen't to confuse anybody.

I've had this conversation once today Cloudy , there's a problem with ejaculators because there will inevitably be some dreadfully distressed and offended soul who wants to demand are they not men then because they have ejaculation issues or a low sperm count. Once you start down this road of hair splitting and pandering there is no end to it, the spiral disappears up its own offended bottom.

I suggested wankers as an alternative, but I wasn't being entirely serious at the time.

It would be nice if all these 'use inclusive language' types actually gave a shit about including females already struggling with equality of access to resources, who don't speak English as their first language, or have a disability, who will be unable to make sense of 'menstruators' and 'cervix havers' and be further distanced from equality to health care. Largely because of some very vocal, very privileged people virtue signalling how very very inclusive they are.

There's a kindness around accepting that not all of those women wish to call themselves women, but equally there's major rudeness and dehumanisation to women in declaring that we now have to refer to women by body functions in some insane attempt to protect a tiny proportion of the population from possibly offensive reality. I am not a 'menstruator' or a 'lactator', stop reducing me to body parts.

This expresses really well what I mean.

I'm so confused by it all. I have read JKR post. I have read stuff on here. Still feel like I must be missing something.

@CloudyVanilla

They're not saying men menstruate.

People have periods – women, men and non-binary people.

Oh it's the the exact same email as I received for complaining about exact same email about all menstruators

Fucking twats the lot of them.

No more Body Shop either then. I'll add them to the lengthening list...