Labour 'stands back' from transgender war

[BovaryX]

I haven't seen this already posted, apologies if it has been. The Times reports that Labour is 'standing back' from the transgender issue in recognition of the fact its threats to expel members with 'transphobic' views during the last election contributed to a collapse of Labour support in the 'Red Wall'. Meanwhile, an Amnesty International spokeswoman claims that the Conservative proposals amount to a 'hostile environment' for trans people in the UK.

^any such proposals would cause a headache for Sir Keir Starmer after disputes over the intersection of trans rights with feminism overshadowed the Labour leadership election. Sir Keir was the only candidate not to sign a pledge calling on the party to expel members with “transphobic” views. He instead tried to take the heat out of the issue.Last week JK Rowling was criticised by the stars of the Harry Potter films after she used her experience of domestic violence to express concerns about female-only spaces and warn against attempts to “erode ‘woman’ as a political and biological class”.
Labour has committed itself to reform of the Gender Recognition Act and David Lammy, the shadow justice secretary, said: “There’s now a change of view that people ought to be able to self-identify and not over-medicalise.” But he declined to go further, telling the BBC: “We would have to look at the legislation when it comes forward in detail^

Thanks Collida

Spineless now some light is being shone on things.

Despite being pretty good at keeping up with news I have no memory of the 2004 GRA at all, challenge of full time job & small children probably.

Initially I supported TW going to women's prisoner (I blame my female socialisation) when I realised they were intact males and too many were violent sex offenders I was horrified at my naivety. Now I cringe at my stupidity in ever believing they were gentle vulnerable men who identified with women and behaved like women.

But politicians don't have an excuse for not looking into this, their job is to understand the impact of these changes on the electorate and think through the implications.

Much as it pains me I will not be able to vote Labour again until they apologise to women and take a pro-women position.

Initially I supported TW going to women's prisoner (I blame my female socialisation) when I realised they were intact males and too many were violent sex offenders I was horrified at my naivety. Now I cringe at my stupidity in ever believing they were gentle vulnerable men who identified with women and behaved like women.

This is why pronouns and TWAW are linguistic rohypnol. Designed to mentally cosh people and obfuscate reality.

Even in my trans supportive days I never thought it means someone like Hayton (heterosexual, wife still trapped in a miserable marriage, wrote the guidelines forcing schoolgirls to share toilets with males). I thought it meant the feminine gay men whose company I'd always enjoyed.

I also thought they didn't like their penises. And then I did what people kept demanding and actually read what transwomen were saying, and yikes.

Does ‘standing back’ mean ‘oops we have now realised why this was being pushed in darkened rooms and under the carpet so we are going to stop publicising our intent and return to back room dealing?

I assume it means "let the Tories get on with putting a stop to it while trying to say as little as possible, so if anyone gets angry we can say it wasn't our fault".

An opposition that stands back instead of standing up isn't one I have much respect for.

@TorkTorkBam

An opposition that stands back instead of standing up isn't one I have much respect for.

Absolutely agree with this. Labour - this is too little, too late, you're still failing women (and losing votes).

@NorthernIrishFeminist

Despite being pretty good at keeping up with news I have no memory of the 2004 GRA at all, challenge of full time job & small children probably.

Initially I supported TW going to women's prisoner (I blame my female socialisation) when I realised they were intact males and too many were violent sex offenders I was horrified at my naivety. Now I cringe at my stupidity in ever believing they were gentle vulnerable men who identified with women and behaved like women.

I blame Orange Is The New Black for a lot of this. It was one of the first shows to make it really big on Netflix, and was hailed as being so feminist. I was in my early twenties back then and felt much the way you did. Now I look back on the whole awful Sophia plot and can't understand how I was ever so blind to the blatant sexism of it. The suggestion that a menopausal nun should give up her HRT to a transgender woman because she somehow "doesn't need it as much" is horrifying, looking back on it. It really was propaganda, and I think it's responsible for the huge blind spot a lot of liberal feminists have on the issue to this day.

At one point the cult of Laverne Cox was so extreme there were calls to cast Laverne as Wonder Woman.

Sorry I was ignorant about Hayton. I mean trans people who recognise that they can't actually change sex. Maybe I mean Fionne Orlander and Miranda Yardley - though I don't know everything they might have done either.

I agree about Orange is the New Black - it was a great example of that "we're all in this together, amiright girls?" presentation of a lovely, feminine and fabulous transwoman who's taken her rightful place among the women, and it was (I can see now) a classic way of making women feel bad if they had any doubts about it. I remember feeling not quite right about it, but that it must be me that didn't understand.

As with the Danish Girl, I do also remember feeling annoyed that being desperate to wear silky or lacy undies and dresses is somehow presented as "being a woman inside" and pitiably stuck in a man's body when those things have nothing inherent to do with being a woman. I always wondered why transwoman were so keen to present as stereotyped women instead of how women actually mainly look and behave.

But I still thought they knew they weren't actual women.

Never saw the Danish Girl, but the thing to remember on the pants front is when they call their preferred undergarments women's pants what they mean is "sex(y) pants".

Spend a few years doing the washing for an AGP, and you soon learn to tell the difference between women's pants and sex pants.

Thinking about it Labour really shouldn't stand back from this. It's letting women do their dirty work for them when Labour's remit is to defend our rights and fight misogyny. I don't want to vote for cowards

I think OITNB was wonderful in many ways, but the Laverne Cox issue goes against the general grain. Although they did show Sophia's male physical strength realistically when Sophia attacked a female prisoner, iirc, and at least they were honest about the transition - they didn't try to fool us into thinking LC was female. And they allowed the female prisoner characters to talk openly and critically about Sophia without having to be demonised for it later, which wouldn't happen now. Wasn't keen on the 'TW understand female genitalia better than actual women' storyline though.

Thinking about it Labour really shouldn't stand back from this. It's letting women do their dirty work for them when Labour's remit is to defend our rights and fight misogyny. I don't want to vote for cowards

I agree. And I haven't forgotten their cynical fudge during the election campaign. They sort of backpedalled on self id, but their idea of women's single-sex services is women + TWs. Or has that changed?

These TWAW politicians never explain their definition of 'transwoman'. Is it a GRC holder, or anyone who comes under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, which is vague as hell?

So this could end women’s rights and erase the meaning of women but Labour don’t really want to get involved.